Shure N44-7 Vs Shure M97xE

The capacitance loading is there to actually lift a drooping response. This happens due to the resonance of the cartridge inductance and the 'total' capacitance of the circuit. The resistance loading damps this resonance to try and achieve a reasonably flat response till 20Khz. Adding more capacitance lowers the resonance frequency ( making it sound dull) and reducing it too much could also do the same. The resistance ( nominally often 47K ohms ) controls the peak level of the resonance. Too much ( higher value) and it will sound brighter , too little and it can sound dull.
In real life both R and C need to be optimised for a particular system. You can try to do it by ear ( but that means you will set it to what you 'like to hear' !) or use a frequency response sweep record from Denon or many other labels. Or just stick to recommended values and you will be in the ballpark region.

Interestingly I find that no one seems to be experimenting with tone arm fluid damping. It can tighten up the bass further and extend it deeper if done properly. However it is messy . The damping fluid, usually silicone oil , or other viscous oils tend to creep out of the container that holds it and spread slowly all around it's base. You you need to clean up every now and then.
In the early 80's the Japs used to experiment a lot and report it in their audio magazines complete with LF response graphs etc. I used to have a bunch of those articles which unfortunately seem to have 'disappeared' over time.

I used to damp the arm on my direct drive turntable. It made a very audible difference. It was only recently I took it off from that turntable. Not really to get rid of it but to implement a newer and better design. You have low frequency sweeps on vinyl that help to test out the LF behaviour of the cartridge/arm combination. With that one can fine tune the damping system.
Those days we just used voltmeters to watch the rise or fall of the frequency sweep. Spectrum analysers were only found in labs !To day we can do a better job of that by using a PC based FFT right at home.

About surface noise. The Hf overload capability is very important. Surface clicks and pops are 'almost' like switching signals. They result in a lot of significant ultrasonic spurious signals and some preamps cannot handle that well. They tend to sound noisier than preamps that have a very good HF overload margin. One reason why opamp input preamps can benefit greatly with modern high speed opamps.
 
Quoting from this page:

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Excess surface noise can be the result of a MM cartridge loaded with too much capacitance. This capacitance interacts with the cart. inductance resulting in a high frequency resonance (see Jim Hagerman's web site). Ultra-sonic noise can excite this resonance and be shifted down in frequency into the audible range. Think of ringing a bell. It's struck with an impulse with a lot of high frequency components, but it rings at it's resonance freq. If you can adjust the capacitance loading, try lowering it. I once had a Clearaudio Arum Beta Wood MM cart. and when I loaded it at the manufactures recommended loading I heard excessive surface noise. When I set my phono stage input to 0 capacitance loading (leaving about 100pF for the cables) the surface noise was much reduced.
Unquote

Is this the same thing which you mentioned in your previous post? This is way above my head :)
 
About surface noise. The Hf overload capability is very important. Surface clicks and pops are 'almost' like switching signals. They result in a lot of significant ultrasonic spurious signals and some preamps cannot handle that well. They tend to sound noisier than preamps that have a very good HF overload margin. One reason why opamp input preamps can benefit greatly with modern high speed opamps.

For the LPs where I heard problem, that existed even during the first 10 seconds of silence on the edge of a LP and even between change of tracks. Is there a possibility to change signals even in those "silence" zones? In some cases the noise is suppressed (not noticeable) when the track starts playing. Of course with some regular cleaning of the LPs this becomes very less. I am sure this is not "hum" as I know it or else that would have been prominent with high volumes with just the phono and the TT powered on with the amp.
 
Is this the same thing which you mentioned in your previous post?

Not the same thing.

For MM cartridges, we have to take care of two loadings in the phono preamp - namely, the impedance loading and the capacitive loading. As already discussed, the impedance that an MM cartridge must see into the phono preamp is usually 47 kilo Ohms. The CNC has dip switches to select impedance loading. The impedance of the cables from the cartridge to the phono preamp is negligible so it can be ignored.
However, the same cables also has a capacitance. The capacitance per foot may vary from 30-40 pF per foot to higher, depending on the type and make of cable used. This is a small number but cannot be ignored as it approaches the recommended capacitive loading value.

Let's say we use a 1.25 meter (~4.1 feet) run from cartridge to phono preamp. The total capacitance of the 4.1' cable will be 4.1 x 30 pF (this is an assumed number) = 123 pF. The recommended capacitive loading for the M97xE is 200 to 300 pF. So you add 200 - 123 pF = 100 pF (rounded off) in the CNC capacitive loading.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.
 
Not the same thing.

For MM cartridges, we have to take care of two loadings in the phono preamp - namely, the impedance loading and the capacitive loading. As already discussed, the impedance that an MM cartridge must see into the phono preamp is usually 47 kilo Ohms. The CNC has dip switches to select impedance loading. The impedance of the cables from the cartridge to the phono preamp is negligible so it can be ignored.
However, the same cables also has a capacitance. The capacitance per foot may vary from 30-40 pF per foot to higher, depending on the type and make of cable used. This is a small number but cannot be ignored as it approaches the recommended capacitive loading value.

Let's say we use a 1.25 meter (~4.1 feet) run from cartridge to phono preamp. The total capacitance of the 4.1' cable will be 4.1 x 30 pF (this is an assumed number) = 123 pF. The recommended capacitive loading for the M97xE is 200 to 300 pF. So you add 200 - 123 pF = 100 pF (rounded off) in the CNC capacitive loading.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.

I always learn better with example :) clear now. But how do I know what is the exact capacitance of the connection between cart and phono because I have the default stock wire in the TT and I do not know what is its actual capacitance per foot in order to extrapolate
 
But how do I know what is the exact capacitance of the connection between cart and phono because I have the default stock wire in the TT and I do not know what is its actual capacitance per foot in order to extrapolate

There won't be an easy way of knowing it unless the TT's manual mentions it somewhere. I am not sure I've seen such figures in any TT manual.

One way of knowing is to change the cable to a "known" cable:lol: - something like this.

Another way is to assume that the cable will have a very good value of around 30 pF/ft and calculate the overall capacitance (multiply pF value by length) and insert appropriate capacitor.

You could also assume medium value like 60 pF/ft and repeat above.

An alternative is to remove the existing capacitive loading from the CNC and hear what it does to the sound.

Your ears are the final arbiters of what sounds good.
 
Stock Technics tonearm wire and interconnect cables are generally of high capacitance.It is better to replace with short length(3 ft approx)of low capacitance shielded cables like Joshua mentioned in his previous post.You can also use Video component cable(Red,Green,Blue connectors).
I am using Amazonbasics Component Video Cable in my TT http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-3RCA-Component-Video-Cable/dp/B001TH7GT6 .Please remember they are very thick,stiff and difficult to solder.
There are Original Technics SL-1200 M5G Cables available here http://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ They are 90pF capacitance but pricey IMO.

Regards,
Sachin
 
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Thanks to both of you, probably I will not go via route of changing stock wires, i remember having this discussion sometime back, unless someone expert and credible like you guys are going to do it, any plans to visit Kolkata? :)

The capacitance changing in CNC is one thing I may try.
 
Stock technics cable from my 1200 has ~110pF add 15pf for tonearm cable and headshell leads. So 100-120pf is good figure along with 47K ohm. I have capacitance meter.
 
stumbled onto a NOS US made N44-7. I'm not able to hear a major difference between my mexican stylus and this. Anyone else have their opinions?
 
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