speaker positioning

[denom]

Thank you, IndianEars. I did notice these things. I've mentioned these in the compromises I had to make in the positioning. But using a mono switch is something I've never done at all! My amp doesn't have one, but maybe JRMC has this option. I'll try this out for sure

My current speakers seem to be less sensitive to the rear wall in terms of bass than typical. I need to put them out quite a bit into the room to reduce the bass well enough to my taste.

I've previously used pink noise to do this, but I now use either spoken content, or "Ballad of a Runaway Horse" to setup the center image.

Assuming that you have the PSB B6 speakers currently in the chain, as learnt from your signature, can understand what your experiencing. Saying this as PSB speakers IMHO are more LF biased compared to others & when paired with a NAD amp this phenomenon is showcased even more! Is the DHT pre used with the power section of the NAD currently??? Do share your experience with this combination as well. Thanks

 

[hydra]

...

I see you have put sound panels in fromnt of the TV screen.. is that quickly removable ?

if you see.. my TV is bang in the center too..

...

That panel is easily removable. I made this panel by pasting wedge foam onto a sheet of 5mm foamboard. This panel is extremely light-weight, and I just lean it onto the TV. When I want to, I just pick it up and remove it. Very convenient to use!

Assuming that you have the PSB B6 speakers currently in the chain, as learnt from your signature, can understand what your experiencing. Saying this as PSB speakers IMHO are more LF biased compared to others & when paired with a NAD amp this phenomenon is showcased even more! Is the DHT pre used with the power section of the NAD currently??? Do share your experience with this combination as well. Thanks

Yes, Dave, I'm using the PSB Image B6 speakers. They do get quite bass-forward with the NAD. This is quite pleasing when it comes to movies, but not so pleasing when it comes to music! The bass has mellowed down substantially, and improved in quality, once I started using the DHT Pre.

Yup, I'm using the DHT Pre to feed the power-amp section of the NAD. I've written about the changes here (post #198):

http://www.hifivision.com/my-audio-video-setup/17554-making-baby-steps-into-hi-fi-20.html

I've mentioned the change in the nature of bass response in sl. no. 2 in the post linked to above. This was indeed the most significant improvement that the Lyrita DHT Pre brought about in the setup!

 

[mpw]

if someday i decided to get floorstanders..

will i have to pull out the speakers the same way that i do now ? ( refer 1st post on the thread for pics ).

The golden triangle norm of speaker positioning does not differentiate between weather the speaker is a standmount or a floor stander.. but only refers to the width of the rear wall.

any pointers ?

I see pics of good looking floorstanders on Naim forums and others and i wonder how close they are to the back wall and after spending so many dollars on that ultra expensive rig - would they be missing any aspect of imaging ?

Surely sound is not about whjat the speakers throw forward - its also about what they throw to the back too..

a. Folks recommend about 12 inches ( or 1 feet ) from the rear wall but is that really enough ?

b. Should the speakers not be placed to eliminate the rack between them so the speakers can communicate for soundstage ?

If point b were true then pullling pushing florstanders is a risky business and hence i would assume that floorstanders would have to be placed in a fixed position

pointers and some floorstander pictures please...

mpw
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[prem]

Pulling and pushing speakers is a no no. When you push and pull speakers you are introducing some mechanical stress on the drivers which takes some time to settle down. Maybe half an hour to an hour.

 

[mpw]

prem,

great to see you here !

i was reading a review of the Linn Majik 140 on stereophile where the reviewer mentioned a distance of 48 inches ( 4 ft ) from the real wall while the Linn dealer mentions - 12 inch ( 1 feet ) will do.

Now 4 ft is way too much a protusion into the room.

But at the same time 12 inches ( 1 ft ) looks less to get a propor soundstage depth.

Thats where the dilemma comes from.

Even the Eposes in my home, i normally position the speakers ( golden triangle ) and then put it back against the back wall to maintain sanity at home

I fell this will be a problem in most homes.


mpw

 

[prem]

12 inches from back wall seems too less for the Majik. It's only when speakers do something like 60 to 70 hz does one normally push the speaker towards the wall for bass reinforcement. Many horn speakers like the Klipsch recommend corner placement for bass. This works because the horns are directional

 

[mpw]

found a few articles on speaker positioning.

Speaker Placement

WASP: speakers placement [English]

Cardas Room Setup Guide

enjoi !

mpw

 

[IndianEars]

I TOTALLY agree with Arj, that electronic room correction should be the LAST option. The Peaks and dip below 150 Hz typically exceed 12 dB and most often are around 20dB. Such aggressive frequency response correction is far from desirable.

I know Zero about Home Theatre reproduction, but have managed my stereo set up wel. I have HUGE speakers ( 3 8 inch woofers per channel) in a tiny room ( approx 200 sq ft) and i am happy with the results. Mumbai forum members welcome to visit.

I have the following additional suggestions:

1. For a Home Theatre Sub which is a stand alone sub, you can even place the sub in the centre of the room, and use it as a coffee table !

2. If possible, explore shifting your listening position by upto 24 inches. Oftem can make a HUGE difference.

3. Walk around the room or even squat next to yr speakers and move around that position. There will be spots ( room Anti nodes) where the Bass is SUBSTANTIALLY less than other positions in the room. Shift your speakers / listening position to these spots, and the Bass overhang will be magically Gone !

4. Do your speakers have separate terminals for the Bass ( Low Freq ) section ? If yes, GREAT ! Disconnect the LF of any one speaker and see if the bass level is more to your liking, for stereo. ( You can reconnect for Home Theatre use). Deep bass is noot directional and you May not even realise that 1 speaker's LF has been disabled.

If 1 LF is in the right direction for you, you can drive one speakers partly out of phase ( cost less than Rs 100 and 100% safe) to get the Exactbass level that you require.

(I know this is a radical suggestion ! but IMHO easier on yr system resources than using a electronic equaliser )

 

[Staxxx]

Hydra, hi. Did you get that foam wedge panel from somewhere special please?

 

[mpw]

I have HUGE speakers ( 3 8 inch woofers per channel) in a tiny room ( approx 200 sq ft)

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Indianears,

request you to put up a pic of your stereo setup..do tell us about the source and amp you use too..

thanks
mpw
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[hydra]

Hydra, hi. Did you get that foam wedge panel from somewhere special please?

Staxxx, I bought the wedge foam (12"x12") from Bajaao.com. The foamboard was bought from a sign-maker's supplies shop.

I think wedge foam (in somewhat thicker options AND a variety of colors) is also available from Cue Acoustics (I remember seeing a PDF brochure on the forum sometime).

 

[Tanoj]

@ Mpw

Great to see that you made those changes with speakers positioning etc, and you get to see how good your speakers are, Thanks for sharing your ideas and views

i too did the same changes couple of months back when Nikhil posted a calculator which calculates the speaker position as per the dimensions, and acoustic treatment of the room and it was day and night difference

one more tweak i would like to encourage you all ( which was originally suggested by Captn Rajesh to me ) is, remove the front speaker cover when you listen... i tried it and found about more 10% or so improvement.

Happy listening to all

Tanoj

 

[mpw]

thanks tanoj.

i kinda like the speakers with the grills on them. frequently removing the grills may damage the grills i fear.

am reducing my rack width drastically to get the fronts to about 5.5 ft approx apart.

removed my large center speaker totally - a paradigm cc190.

little by little.. maximise..

mpw

 

[arj]

Most grills are not acoustically transparent. I very rarely put the grills on . The difference is in mids and highs being more open

 

[mpw]

some nice reading material on acoustics.

Domestic acoustics and audio performance - [English]
Taming local lf acoustic problems - [English]
TNT November 2003 editorial: Room acoustics [English]

mpw

 

[mpw]

i think at this position i am getting a good response from the room. The speakers are pulled forward about 1.5 meters from the rear wall and also about 1.35 meters from the side wall /curtain.

I can be finicky sometines and that means that though i cant eliminate the TV out of the equation, i will need to find a more aesthetic looking way to cloak it.



The carpet between the speakers could be larger and i suppose will be my purchase.

There is a low light shot also just to give you guys an idea.

I suppose this is the best i can go. Suggestions on small practical workable tweaks welcome.

After shortening the rack width.. i think that space would be better occupied by a floorstander ( The standmounts do not give the impression of being big and therefore one can see a large gap between the speakers and the side wall which was not there when the rack was 73 inch wide )

:lol:

or maybe a smaller speaker that uses the wall to re-inforce itself. The Eposes seem to work well away from the wall and rest assured its not a function of porting. I suppose any speaker would need space around it.

Maybe i will try to back it up a bit and see how it goes. Give it about 12 inches from the rear wall and move my listening seat forward to meet the speakers at about 6 feet.

Ja - and the speakers are toed in just a bit but are not shown as such in the photos.

I need to find a more presentable solution as i do not see myself pulling / pushing speakers for long. I cannot afford to keep them as depicted in the pic as they take up too much of Mumbai real estate.



Compromise.. .. is the meaning of life and though you may discover the route to sonic nirvana.. that route may not be for you.

mpw

 

[mpw]

would love to have this kind of positioning ( minus the TV )....

i kind of like the distance from the rear walls. I think all speakers need this distance ( say about 2 ft ) from the rear and side walls to work best.

mpw

 

[hydra]

mpw, you should be able to manage 2 ft from the wall, shouldn't you? From the pics posted in the first post, the LHS of the room is closed, so it should be safe to pull the LHS speaker forward, without it affecting traffic too much, or increasing risk of it getting knocked over.

On the RHS, you might need to manage the traffic so that it doesn't affect the RHS speaker (knocking over issues) when pulled forward by 2 ft.

From the pics above, perhaps there is space on the right, just next to, and behind the RHS speaker to put up a low book-shelf of sorts (facing the corridor, not the speaker), so that area is kinda-sorta closed off to traffic? I couldn't make out how much space there is: You'll need at least 1ft (depth) there without affecting the straight traffic to pull it off.

A slightly more adventurous way (in terms of possibility of domestic unrest) that would save space (width) would be to put a folding wood screen just behind and to the right of the speaker, so it closes off the area right behind it. There should be some nice ornate looking screens that might pass inspection by the better-half. The screen would also perhaps act as a kinda-sorta diffuser.

To add, a lower rack might help improve space to the back wall. But that might be too much money spent for too little benefit.

 

[mpw]

hydra,

my room is depicted in post #57 and not #58.

The pic in post no 58 is drool for me

sorry for the confusion..

the point is not 2 ft.. i need 3 feet to get the imaging depth aroing the speakers. Even 2 feet is a compromise..

mpw

mpw

 

[mpw]

the other thing on my mind..

there is a need to balance the compromise between speaker dimension ( LBH ) and the rear / side wall dimension.

This means that if i decide to go for a shiny new pair of speakers ( at a later date ) then :-

a. Either go for something with smaller dimension that can work with the rear wall by being positioned closer to it. This implies a small stand mount. That also implies i would miss out on the "scale" of things

b. Else go for a proper floorstander and take it into the room as much as i can ( atleast 3 to 4 feet ) but thats where the hitch lies.. i cannot do that without monopolising the living room and not disturbing other stakeholders.

this is a catch 22 which needs to be resolved and i suppose only i can help myself here..

Sidvee, had recommended ( quite some time back ) a kind of wooden partition / screen behind my rear speaker that would also act as an "isolator" for it

yea - maybe i need to look at creative interior design ( or manipulation ?? )

mpw