Suggestions for connecting CD transport to wifi speaker
- Thread starter sachinchavan 15865
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@sachinchavan 15865 Eureka,
You can do it with this device. It has SPDIF and optical in and it can transmit to to RS150 using bluetooth. And it supports aptX Low Latency (which RS150 also supports) and that is more that CD quaility samping rate.
You can do it with this device. It has SPDIF and optical in and it can transmit to to RS150 using bluetooth. And it supports aptX Low Latency (which RS150 also supports) and that is more that CD quaility samping rate.
ajuvignesh
Well-Known Member
This is a DAC. It converts wireless digital stream to analog output, if I am not wrong. You would need one more device to take that analog audio, digitise it and stream to the speakers.Arjun, I am exploring downsizing from the hifi to an all in one. And I want to play my CDs too. There are other AIOs with optical and coaxial in, but ‘form factor - price - SQ’ wise the RS150 fits best.
I found this through an internet search - not sure if it’s available here. Also, it is over designed (has a DAC as well as USB-SPDIF converter) for my need. Still hoping there’s something out there for this peculiar need and someone here knows!
Hope this is a trustworthy Indian reseller. Shall speak to them tomorrow:
Audioengine D2 Premium 24-Bit Wireless DAC
Advantages of wireless - The D2 wireless system transmits bit-perfect PCM-stereo simultaneously to up to 3 receivers. This PCM stream is routed from/to the various components of the system (optical transmitter/receiver, USB controller and DAC) via the I2S Bus, which maintains data integrity throughoproaudiohome.com
Or, am I wrong?
It has two devices and the receiver connects to the amp via RCA, if my guess is right.
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Oops. Thanks for letting me know. I indeed forgot to paste the link. There are pleny of these available. What you pasted should work. I actually missed out pasting this
Sachin, have you considered the Naim Musi Qb ?
may be slightly more expensive range but has an optical in as well as USB and analogue in. For music quality I would rate Naim far higher than Mcintosh which is only a brand name from what it was known for in the past ( mainly Amps) and usually outsources to OEMs for design and manufacture of others . eg their TT was made by Project.. Naim is known for everything from source to speakers and has been on digital for a very long time.
This is far more elegant than adding more and more boxes when your whole intent is to simplify to 1 or 2 boxes.
may be slightly more expensive range but has an optical in as well as USB and analogue in. For music quality I would rate Naim far higher than Mcintosh which is only a brand name from what it was known for in the past ( mainly Amps) and usually outsources to OEMs for design and manufacture of others . eg their TT was made by Project.. Naim is known for everything from source to speakers and has been on digital for a very long time.
This is far more elegant than adding more and more boxes when your whole intent is to simplify to 1 or 2 boxes.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Thanks @mbhangui and @bornfi. This solution might work. I shall look up the specific products.
I have a technical question about it though. I know that aptx (as well as aptx LL) supports CD quality based.
- Compression ratio: 4:1
- Audio format: 16-bit, 44.1kHz
- Data rates: 352 kbps
Also, why doesn’t the Mumbai-Pune highway & vehicle analogy apply to BT just like it applies to Wifi? Is BT both a highway and a vehicle?
@arj, I agree on the simplification/elegance part. And your comparison of the two companies is spot on. However, my comparison of the McIntosh (RS150 and RS250) and Naim (MuSo 2 and MuSo Qb) products in this category (based on reviews, YT videos and speaking to couple of owners) is contrarian to it. The Naim products sound over-processed (hi-fi’sh) to me. It feels like a filtered/distilled sound. On the other hand the McIntosh alternatives sound more natural and open. The first generation MuSos had a better sound signature in comparison. I’ve compared most of the other available options from other companies too. And RS150 seems to fit my bill best in terms of SQ, price and form factor combined. I was also keen on the Ruark 5 (with class A/B amplification - rare in AIOs), but I couldn’t find any Indian distributor/dealer for the same. Please let me know if there’s any.
AptX Lossless is designed to spot 16/44.1 and only output it as bit perfect. It will only do anything higher when the input is higher.
What is aptX? Cutting through the clutter of Qualcomm’s Bluetooth codecs
The world of Bluetooth codecs can be a swamp of confusing technical jargon, especially when it comes to Qualcomm's aptX family. Here's what you need to know.
www.digitaltrends.com
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Are you sure? Because the linked article says “AptX LL is limited to lossy, 16-bit audio, so it won’t be anyone’s first choice for critical music listening”. And “SBC, AAC, and aptX are the most-supported Bluetooth codecs around, but all three are typically limited to lossy compression at 16-bit/44.1kHz, with bit rates that rarely go above 352 kbps.”AptX Lossless is designed to spot 16/44.1 and only output it as bit perfect. It will only do anything higher when the input is higher.
What is aptX? Cutting through the clutter of Qualcomm’s Bluetooth codecs
The world of Bluetooth codecs can be a swamp of confusing technical jargon, especially when it comes to Qualcomm's aptX family. Here's what you need to know.
How can any codec compress CD quality to 352 kbps without loss? If that were true, streaming lossless at 360 kbps should have been possible. It’s possible that the aptx codec is smarter than mp3 and others, and results in loss that is not easily perceivable. Am I wrong?
Also, since you replied before I added the following question to my previous reply, posting it again here:
“why doesn’t the Mumbai-Pune highway & vehicle analogy apply to BT just like it applies to Wifi? Is BT both a highway and a vehicle?”
You have aptxLL and aptxHD.
aptxll is low latency but lossy
aptxHD is lossless.
Compression doesn't necessary mean lossy. e.g. Flac is lossless compression. I will reply to BT in a different post.
I have never done any research on this hence my view is theoretical and not researched and hence limited, and maybe just a perception so you have a better chance of being right . I am sure you would have considered long term support and tech performance regarding driver stability as well . its the conservative in me but anything which is App driven, better be sure will continue to suppport thje app as your Phone OS/Pad os also upgrades. eg I still need to rteain my Old ipod so i can use an app which measures turntable speed 
as they discontinued it
As a system, CDP to Naim direct connection might just be better than the CDP to converters to wireless to Mcintosh due to the sheer simplicity While Naim dacs have always been very good but not sure what they are using here hence cannot comment, but if I were buying blind without having heard it, i would always choose the Naim. ( ie as a cdp-speaker system).
If choosing a Mcintosh, for what you are trying to do, playing CDs does sound contrarian since if you are going to transport a CD player SPDIF which needs to be converted to a wifi signal and then back to a signal for a wireless dac, In this case I would feel a lossless Tidal/Apple might just be a better option unless you do convert Cds to high quality FLACs and play it via a streamer.
In the end you know best on how you are going to listen to the maximum amount of time hence do take these only as inputs !
as they discontinued itAs a system, CDP to Naim direct connection might just be better than the CDP to converters to wireless to Mcintosh due to the sheer simplicity While Naim dacs have always been very good but not sure what they are using here hence cannot comment, but if I were buying blind without having heard it, i would always choose the Naim. ( ie as a cdp-speaker system).
If choosing a Mcintosh, for what you are trying to do, playing CDs does sound contrarian since if you are going to transport a CD player SPDIF which needs to be converted to a wifi signal and then back to a signal for a wireless dac, In this case I would feel a lossless Tidal/Apple might just be a better option unless you do convert Cds to high quality FLACs and play it via a streamer.
In the end you know best on how you are going to listen to the maximum amount of time hence do take these only as inputs !
I think BT is the highway and aptx is the vehicle and bluetooth will have to compress but considering all the processing in a wireless speaker that may be the least of your concerns.
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There are many ways to compress data.
1. By removing data which you think people will not miss. Example. If you have written a document. Sometimes you might put two continuous white space in the document. Now if you convert that two white space to a single white space, it is a lossy compression. Sometimes you might put some useless punctuation, removing that will not contstrain your ability to interpret the document.
2. Lossless compression. Take the example of the zip program. You use zip to compress your file into a zip file. When you unzip it, you get back the original. In music we have lossy and lossless compression. Flac is one example of lossless compression. Flac reduces the data to around 50 to 70 percent of its original. The tradeoff of using compression is that the receiving device has to decompress it. So even though you have achieved lossless, if the end device is going to spend time and CPU, decompressing the audio while it is playing, it surely can degrade the audio quality.
Now let me muddy few things for you. You think by using something over wireless will be very good. Remember that the wireless is a very narrow road compared to a 8 lane highway on a wired ethernet. There will be traffic congestion on the road. Sometimes your vehicle need to stop because on this narrow road there are many other vehicles and you have only one lane. All this factors will increase your journey time. In the audio world, this will increase latency. If you are worrying about things like bluetooth, then there are other things to worry about when using something like wireless. And like what @arj is suggesting, using multiple device to transmit device is not a good thing, but if you want to use it, you shouldn't be worrying about such things
1. TCP/IP is like a super connected national highway throughout the country. It offers you multiple features. Let say you are traveling from Mumbai to Rajasthan. One particular road gets jammed, you can take an alternate route to reach Jaipur. You can even reach Jaipur via Hyderabad as an example. This highway has multiple things like food joints, petrol pumps, tourist attactions. You have restaurants on this highway where you can bring your own food and eat it there too.
2. Bluetooth is a point to point protocol. It is like a private road that you have built from Mumbai to Jaipur. Only you can enter it after entering a PIN. If this road gets blocked, there is nothing you can do. This road has only two things that you can do. It just has petrol pumps and restrooms. This road is narrow and limited by the wireless protocol the chip has (4G band or 5G band). But even the 5G band cannot compete with the super high speed of the ethernet.
3. Airplay and google cast are like two private restaurants on the highway. Both are selling maggi two minutes noodles. They will taste the same. But some people will like the maggi noodles made by apple and some by google. But these two shops will not allow you to bring any outside food and eat it there unless the outside food has been packed by apple or google from another apple or google restaurants.
The important thing to realize that in a communication you need a communicator and a listener. Both should be talking the same language. You have a CD transport that can output data only using SPDIF (Sony-Philips Digital Interface) on either a optical port or a RCA port. Your McIntosh doesn't have a SPDIF receiver. So you will have to have an intermediate device that has an SPDIF receiver. But how to you talk to Mcintosh who has setup private restaurant on the highway that doesn't allow outside food to be eaten. So you have only two options as I see it
1) Read data from the SPDIF receiver, using a sound card on a linux machine, convert that into an airplay packet or google cast packet and disguise yourself so that the two private restaurants on the highway (apple and google) allow you to bring outside food and eat it
2) Utilize that private road called bluetooth, enter it use it as you see fit. Those chinese bluetooth devices will gives you a vehicle that has the SPDIF receiver and a bluetooth transmitter and hence allowing you to use that private road
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
I know. But when you rip CD into FLAC, you get bitrate around 700-800 kbps on an average. I wonder if one could compress down to 356 kbps without loss!
I am aware of the inherent contradictions in my expectations. It’s just that my particular needs and choices are making me explore a solution that addresses them in an optimum way. I am open to being pointed out these contradictions, and am taking your and Arjun’s inputs into my consideration.
Thanks for explaining the technical aspects so well - effectively as well as entertainingly.
I have never done any research on this hence my view is theoretical and not researched and hence limited, and maybe just a perception so you have a better chance of being right . I am sure you would have considered long term support and tech performance regarding driver stability as well . its the conservative in me but anything which is App driven, better be sure will continue to suppport thje app as your Phone OS/Pad os also upgrades. eg I still need to rteain my Old ipod so i can use an app which measures turntable speed
Yes @arj, I understand. I too am a deliberate buyer and evaluate a decision from all possible angles. The aspects you mentioned are important.
However, I have also realised, with experience, that I do well when I subjugate the head to the heart especially when it comes to purchases/decisions that have emotional impact. Now, that doesn’t mean ignoring the facts/logical considerations. But it never works for me if I buy something that I haven’t ‘liked/loved’ but bought because it was the best thought-out option. For instance, when, like everyone else I had to look for replacing Blackberry with new smartphone, I first went with Android (the Samsung Note 2, if I remember well). It ticked all the boxes… but never captured my heart, before or after the purchase. I sold it off in less than a year and went for iPhone - which had appealed to my senses and sensibility from the word go - and I’ve been with iPhones ever since. And so on. An opposite example was my decision to go for Panasonic Plasma around 2013/14 when plasma TV production was in its last year (imagine the risks therefore) worked out so well for me. I was in love with the plasma picture the moment I saw it. Am still using the TV and never felt swayed to replace it with bigger/more resolving LED models. My vehicle purchases (original Ford Fiesta and VW Polo GT TSI) too have always been similarly guided - love over caution and worked for me.
Not surprisingly, I’ve followed the same principle wrt work/career choices and never repented.
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Hats off to your ability to put this in such a simple language. Reminds me of the point that only one with very strong grasp of the topic can put something complex into simple words
The difference between Bluetooth and Ethernet paths was really well put.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
I am sure you would have seen this reddit post ..was doing a search since you got me curious am sure there are opposite inputs as well but its performance on wifi and updates is something I would be worried about.
am sure there are opposite inputs as well but its performance on wifi and updates is something I would be worried about.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Yes, I had read that post. And it was the only one pointing to that issue in all of my search. I also checked with a FM who has the Mc speaker and he isn’t facing the dropouts. I’d be shocked if a premier American company’s product faces problem being used within the Apple ecosystem as most of their sales would be to Americans who mostly use Apple products.I am sure you would have seen this reddit post ..was doing a search since you got me curious
And did you catch the ‘The McIntosh is the better sounding speaker’ part in that review?
Yes I did also the last line ie "Naim for sanity, Macintosh for sound" ..the worry I usually have with such all in ones is how will it be 2-3 years from now eg if the wireless radio fails all you can do is throw it away. Wish they had given a USB/digital or RCA input as well as a failsafe
i know I sound like an old fuddy duddy but i did have a old wired sound base fail me once and despite sounding good had no options to play it since its volume button got broken and remained stuck at 0...had to give it to the kabadi.
BTW check this one out..
i know I sound like an old fuddy duddy but i did have a old wired sound base fail me once and despite sounding good had no options to play it since its volume button got broken and remained stuck at 0...had to give it to the kabadi.
BTW check this one out..
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sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Then it’d be a short-lived love affair - there’d still be some highs to cherish.
But frankly, what are the chances? My Bose Soundlink 2 is 10 years old and still going strong. Certain brands evoke that confidence. Yet there’d always be that element of luck.
I considered it hard and long. Especially for its Analog signal processing as well as VFM. Two things worked against - the form factor (impossible to fit below or besides the TV on the cabinet) and the tube gives it a slightly mushy sound (one that I’ve outgrown from the days I used hybrid amplification).
I’ve studied almost all the prominent options for premium AIO’s out there. May be I should post a comparative assessment. The McIntosh, Ruark (R5) and JBL (L75ms) ones that stood out for me for different reasons. JBL is too bulky and Ruark doesn’t seem to have a distributor here.
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
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