DAC + Subwoofer management.
The Betsy Baffle Project
- Thread starter aeroash
- Start date
Hi, did you find drawings of these baffles (the curves) or did you build them just guestimating the curves? thx.
The dimensions were shared by Randy of Caintuck Audio in the Decware Forums.
First of all, I am new here, so hello to everybody, My F15 has arrived yesterday... the last 2 years I was reading all these posts on several forums regarding the OB design...and I am close to choosing the Decware ZF15L design, so it will be this bigger baffle, but my concern is this on side conceal baffle to off center the speaker. Also, reading all these threads and posts on all these community sites was leading toward the square design with U Frame, or one side to off-center...or the original OB design for F15 on the Lee site...But, if I go with Decware ZF15L, how to put this side baffle...see the picture, any thoughts? As picture indicate, than this praised curved effect of this design is no longer in place....?
And why is no one talking about this more, when this of center fact is well known...
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grindstone
Active Member
I think people are of two minds: they either use a proven geometry/trusted advisor or they set-about to experiment and find a geometry for themselves. You may "mock-up" disposable materials and test things yourself for quick comparisons. My experiences with widerangers would also have consideration for tilting-up the axis if listening will be nearer.
Interestingly, Spatial Audio, GR Research, and Lii Audio’s OB designs do not off-centre their drivers.
The lure of a big baffle was compelling, and I finally got to it. I had to see first-hand what the allure was.
An 8'x4' 18mm Plywood was cut in 4 equal parts resulting in a baffle of 4'x2' of 36mm each. I had enough real estate to play around with the driver height and settled with a 34" height.
The larger baffles are fun but are impractical in my listening space. The only way I can think of keeping these around would be to trim the width and retain the height. The Caintuck Betsy Baffles with the F15s are no slouch and are an incredible proposition from a sound, aesthetic and practicality perspective. The larger baffles have perhaps improved the sound experience by 5%, but are just impractical for my use case.
Cheers!
An 8'x4' 18mm Plywood was cut in 4 equal parts resulting in a baffle of 4'x2' of 36mm each. I had enough real estate to play around with the driver height and settled with a 34" height.
- Firstly, it was laughingly easy to position these baffles to get a pin-point centre imaging, unlike the smaller Caintuck Betsy Baffles, which were finicky and demanded considerable time to position them.
- The soundstage remained comparable to the smaller Betsys, which was incredible.
- They sound slightly thicker in the midrange.
- The biggest draw in improvement was in the perception of the highs. The substantial increase in the placement of the driver, i.e. from 13.5" of the Betsys to 34" in the bigger baffle has made the F15s open up and sing.
The larger baffles are fun but are impractical in my listening space. The only way I can think of keeping these around would be to trim the width and retain the height. The Caintuck Betsy Baffles with the F15s are no slouch and are an incredible proposition from a sound, aesthetic and practicality perspective. The larger baffles have perhaps improved the sound experience by 5%, but are just impractical for my use case.
Cheers!
Third Iteration - The Narrow Baffle
After much experimentation, I have settled on the final baffle shape for the Lii Audio F15. The previous iteration of the baffle provided improvements in the scale of the presentation, over the little Betsy. The soundstage was immersive, and I feared I would lose it by trimming the baffle, but it had to be done to accommodate or be palatable in my living space.
To my surprise, the slimmed-down baffle sounds even lovelier! The F15s in the new OB can provide a soundstage that is wide, deep, and enveloping, giving the listener the feeling of being right in the middle of the performance.
One of the most striking features of the F15s is its natural tone. The sound is incredibly organic, with no hint of artificiality or colouration. Every instrument and voice reproduced sounds just right. Coupled with a dual-subwoofer setup, the bass response is tight and controlled, never overpowering or bloated, and blending with the F15s seamlessly.
The mids have a body, heft and texture that is engaging. The treble is smooth. Even though the F15s start dropping off from 5k by 3db, before peaking at 10k and then dropping off the cliff, one doesn't seem to miss anything, as they remain sparkly enough!
The F15s also have an airy presentation that is simply breathtaking. The sound seems to float in the air, with a sense of space and separation that is hard to describe. The speakers disappear, leaving only the music as if the instruments and voices are suspended in mid-air. This makes for an incredibly engaging listening experience, as you are drawn into the music and can easily pick out individual instruments and sounds.
The holographic imaging of the F15 OB is also a standout feature. The soundstage is incredibly wide and deep, with pinpoint accuracy and placement of instruments and voices. It's as if you can visualize the performers on a stage in front of you, with each one occupying their own space. This gives the music a sense of dimensionality, realism and immersion that is incredible. The wide soundstage envelops the listener in a three-dimensional sound field. This makes for an incredibly engaging listening experience, where the music seems to be all around you.
I must admit, Dirac did play a role in making the presentation more focused, and forward. Using a DSP also helps with not worrying about the dipole peak and various anomalies that come with an OB design. The detailed DAC of the miniDSP Flex combined with a mellow SET is the perfect marriage for synergy with the F15s.
After much experimentation, I have settled on the final baffle shape for the Lii Audio F15. The previous iteration of the baffle provided improvements in the scale of the presentation, over the little Betsy. The soundstage was immersive, and I feared I would lose it by trimming the baffle, but it had to be done to accommodate or be palatable in my living space.
To my surprise, the slimmed-down baffle sounds even lovelier! The F15s in the new OB can provide a soundstage that is wide, deep, and enveloping, giving the listener the feeling of being right in the middle of the performance.
One of the most striking features of the F15s is its natural tone. The sound is incredibly organic, with no hint of artificiality or colouration. Every instrument and voice reproduced sounds just right. Coupled with a dual-subwoofer setup, the bass response is tight and controlled, never overpowering or bloated, and blending with the F15s seamlessly.
The mids have a body, heft and texture that is engaging. The treble is smooth. Even though the F15s start dropping off from 5k by 3db, before peaking at 10k and then dropping off the cliff, one doesn't seem to miss anything, as they remain sparkly enough!
The F15s also have an airy presentation that is simply breathtaking. The sound seems to float in the air, with a sense of space and separation that is hard to describe. The speakers disappear, leaving only the music as if the instruments and voices are suspended in mid-air. This makes for an incredibly engaging listening experience, as you are drawn into the music and can easily pick out individual instruments and sounds.
The holographic imaging of the F15 OB is also a standout feature. The soundstage is incredibly wide and deep, with pinpoint accuracy and placement of instruments and voices. It's as if you can visualize the performers on a stage in front of you, with each one occupying their own space. This gives the music a sense of dimensionality, realism and immersion that is incredible. The wide soundstage envelops the listener in a three-dimensional sound field. This makes for an incredibly engaging listening experience, where the music seems to be all around you.
I must admit, Dirac did play a role in making the presentation more focused, and forward. Using a DSP also helps with not worrying about the dipole peak and various anomalies that come with an OB design. The detailed DAC of the miniDSP Flex combined with a mellow SET is the perfect marriage for synergy with the F15s.
Subbu68
Well-Known Member
Love to steal your room (with the gear of course). Lovely setup
And of course detailed impression about F15 left me drooling. What are the dimensions you finally chose?
Unfortunately, as an apartment dweller (so no DIY carpentry) and with no carpentry shop in the vicinity (have to search the industrial area some 30kms away) my F6 are still on their test cardboard OB to get sporadic threats from my wifey that they'd fly out of the window (for spoiling the room looks).
44" high x 16" wide x 36mm thick. The feet are 18" x 14".
If you like the OB sound you should positively look into implementing a permanent solution. A rigid baffle will also help anchor the bass notes.
15'x17'. The wall on the 15' side opens to another room. I use a Rythmik L12.
devstation18
Member
Even I had enquired for Fast 8 last week haven’t got any response
I ended up getting a pair of used F15’s. Put them in some Caintuck shaped/sized baffles. Because my room is quite small 12.5’x13’(w) and a combo guitar room, I’m restricted to nearfield with most any speaker. I’ve tried them on the floor, flat and tilted up 1-2.5”, and the soundstage just never gets much higher than the speakers. The center image will get to a couple feet above them, but anything off center still sounds like it’s coming from a low position. I’ve actually been putting them on 10” stands about 6.5’ apart and 3’ from the front/side walls. I’m about 5.5-6’ from the speakers with them tied in crossing right in front of me. I lose very little perceptible bass on the stands and the soundstage moves up. I can compensate for the little bass loss with EQ easily. The sound great with classical and jazz, but mediocre at best with most rock (except for very well recorded tracks) or very “busy” tracks. Trying to decide if they’re worth keeping or not. My wife thinks even my old refurbed and upgrade d Polk Monitor 5B’s do more well than these. I’m loathe to get rid of them until I’ve upgraded my entire system, which is in progress, to really give them a chance.
Gabsyr
New Member
Sorry but what is the F6 "Betsy" aesthetically good idea proposed here? As far as I understand the graphs, the best proposed dimensions seem to be given for rectangular shape baffles. Isn't so?
Gabsyr
New Member
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