Sorry. You are right quad. Should not have used sweeping statement like that. But for Dynamic range and low frequency response audio CD can be good option.
Regards
Edit : by option I mean digital has more advantage.
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The Past, Present and Future of Vinyl
- Thread starter ajay124
- Start date
Regards
Edit : by option I mean digital has more advantage.
ajay124
Well-Known Member
Ajay!
This is a decision best made on a personal level. You have to live with vinyl for a while to figure out whether you see a benefit or not.
As for availability, classical is far easier to source with pristine second hand records ready for the taking, well not so much now that I've snapped most upBut seriously, they are far better maintained than other genres. I don't have the knowledge of classical that you have, but I can tell you one thing, listening to classical on LP is a far more soul satisfying experience than I ever thought possible.
I have umpteen duplicates on CD and LP and not one CD comes even close to reproducing that warm body and lifelife texture that LPs put out.
Then again I'm a die hard vinyl nut so beware of my wallet lightening suggestions
Regards
Stevieboy,
You are one of the 'posterboys' of the vinyl and tube revolutions on the forum
Would you care to share your reminiscences of how you got into vinyl, and why you prefer to traverse the globe in a 45. Did you give a fair hearing to digital and solid state music before moving into tubes/vinyl. What are the major pro's and con's of your rig? Do you perceive any value in digital music and solid state amplification, which is lacking in your system?
>>>
ajay124,
In my view the definitive Beethoven symphonies are by Furtwangler and Van Karajan. I recently picked up the entire set of nine symphonies by Furtwangler from Rhythm House ( these were CDs by EMI- ADD). If you wish to have CDs, please contact Rhythm House; my friend very recently ordered and got another set, on my recommendation.
I have not found any Beethoven by Toscanini so far.
Picked up Holst's Planets & Elgar's Enigma by Boult, Tchaikovsky's 4th,5th & Pathetique by Van Karajan and Schubert's Ninth & Haydn's 88th by Furtwangler, all from Landmark in Phoenix Mall, Lower Parel.
What more can one ask, except for a clean collar, a smooth chin and an SME?
Regards
ajay124
Well-Known Member
issigonis
I have the Karajan recordings of Beethoven's nine symphonies on both cd and dvd. I am aware of the admiration and respect which the Furtwangler recordings command, but I have not heard them. For many years I had fixed notions about buying classical music. I had paired Beethoven/Karajan, Bach/Gould, Bach/Menuhin Mozart/Barenboim, Schubert/Bohm, Chopin/Rubinstein etc. These recordings are undeniably great, but now I want to listen to versions recorded by other conductors, orchestras and musicians.
Currently I am more into music from the period 1850-1950. Music I was earlier less familiar with. These days when I reach out for a Bach, Beethoven or Mozart cd, I waver, and move on to the shelves occupied by my new cds, Shostakovich, Bartok, Stravinsky, Borodin, Balakirev, Mussorgsky, Rimski Korsakov, Prokofiev, Messiaen, Schoenberg.
The conductors that I most like at the moment are Pierre Boulez, Bernard Haitink and Valery Gergeiv. If you want to listen to the 'mighty' sound of Russian classical music, check out the hybrid SACD recordings of Valery Gergiev and The Mariinsky Orchestra. The stupendous clarity, detail and dynamics of the 'Gergiev' sound is good enough to convince a few vinyl o philes to take a second look at digital, solid state music
I have the Karajan recordings of Beethoven's nine symphonies on both cd and dvd. I am aware of the admiration and respect which the Furtwangler recordings command, but I have not heard them. For many years I had fixed notions about buying classical music. I had paired Beethoven/Karajan, Bach/Gould, Bach/Menuhin Mozart/Barenboim, Schubert/Bohm, Chopin/Rubinstein etc. These recordings are undeniably great, but now I want to listen to versions recorded by other conductors, orchestras and musicians.
Currently I am more into music from the period 1850-1950. Music I was earlier less familiar with. These days when I reach out for a Bach, Beethoven or Mozart cd, I waver, and move on to the shelves occupied by my new cds, Shostakovich, Bartok, Stravinsky, Borodin, Balakirev, Mussorgsky, Rimski Korsakov, Prokofiev, Messiaen, Schoenberg.
The conductors that I most like at the moment are Pierre Boulez, Bernard Haitink and Valery Gergeiv. If you want to listen to the 'mighty' sound of Russian classical music, check out the hybrid SACD recordings of Valery Gergiev and The Mariinsky Orchestra. The stupendous clarity, detail and dynamics of the 'Gergiev' sound is good enough to convince a few vinyl o philes to take a second look at digital, solid state music
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ajay124
Well-Known Member
issigonis
What more can one ask, except for a clean collar, a smooth chin and an SME.
Is this the SME you are 'asking' for? Looks Sussex y.
SME - Home
What more can one ask, except for a clean collar, a smooth chin and an SME.
Is this the SME you are 'asking' for? Looks Sussex y.
SME - Home
entsurgeon
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2010
- Messages
- 591
- Points
- 43
hey ajay:
lets review a perticular track on all three formatss on my rig. i did this mths ago and am reproducing it from memory:
track: ai zindagii gale laga le- sadma, ilaiya raja, cbs records.
my rig as you all can see is at best mediocre and compromised. denon in pure direct mode is great with good soundstaging and did clip just once in its lifetime when i connected the frontech multimeda sats to it.
wharfedale diamonds- what should i say, its the largest selling towers in past 100 yrs. if it were not for economics of scale, this ones would sure have a price tag of 125-160 k with a vfm rating of 3.5-4.25
at times when i get to listen to it unhindered (that is , it enchants even my 3-6 yo kids), everything is pure bliss. the soundstage, the soul, the feel of 'being there'. i know theres a big room for improvement, but a big chunk of improvement comes with right placement and room acoustics.
so:: stage 1- spinning sadma lp:
minuscule hiss prior to track... low noise floor, with the opening up of string piece you can feel the breeze caressing you and break of dawn too. as the track progresses you traverse into the recording studio and the electronic sound that follows would make laymen wonder if the bass and sharps are actually being sourced from a cleverly hidden cdp.
and then suresh wadkar starts singing. its just okay feeling. thats because when i listen to lataji or rafi saab on vinyl, i feel like earlier good systems made me feel like i was standing 'there' in the room, but this rig makes me feel like i ve jumped into the pensieve(ref. potterboy) thats their mouth and that i am watching their vocal cords move n croon in front of me.(entsurgeon.... stop it, you are pakaao'ing everybady.)
so... the song ends with a good feeling.
stage 2:
put a cassette in a reasonably warmed up nak.
nak is one wonderful thing and this perticular piece was bought in for a recording studio which went out of business so soon, this piece has been as good as new. with a noise floor so low, pressing play makes one wonder if it somehow mutes the ambient sound of the room or sends some noise cancellation signals to the loudspeakers.
sadma sings. and how. you dont feel like you are missing anything ... nak is a great match for pro ject sound. though sound is bit more compressed as compared, a proper blind a-b test will be barely 60% accurate for avg listener. for a seasoned guy the difference is there to appreciate. maybe i must get a great pre amp or phono stage.
well... suddenly, wadkar saab steps in.. and u get restless. you start checking whats wrong... ?? has the wharfes concked out after yrs of faithful service?? as vocals attract the limelight, u start to feel its shortcomings... vocals as well as pieces that are adorning the supportive role.
stage 3:
spin that vinyl again:
this time, your mind is trained to listen for the difference from first note. but youll have to work your brains so haard, you ll drive out the pleasure. however as the track progreeses and the music gets busier, you just keep wanting more without feeling you ve reached the limit. the rig churns out whatever is thrown at it....
you get up stop the lp and place the tape again... this time from an interlude .:
stage4:
the interlude..
as the track gets busier, things start getting clustered?? you know? like every instrument player is stepping into the room..... 24*18' is good for 4-8-16 players but now players are stepping in,.. 32-64.... everywhere there is sound .. and you feel like you are attending a carnival of the sorts where you know whats being played and your foot still stomps on it, but the organized-ness... the unity is cracking.
play the same piece with vinyl..... musicians are stepping into the room... 8-16-32-64....... it seems like the room in true harry potter fashion gets larger on inside to accomodate more players.
thats that.
while vinyl is quite good at either end of spectrum, tapes fall shortin matching the midrange . and yes... the soul stays longer with you when you spin vinyl.
with cds played on my basic lg dvdp, the less said the better. dont look for soul. you are listening to electronically vibrating paper cones that generate sound waves resembling songs to a wonderful degree. its an enjoyable feeling. but looking for soul- with my rig you have to be stupid enough to try bringing back the bygone to life like the second brother from beedle the bardz book.
i must say my rig isnt upto the mark for comparing the vinyl with cds. still, i think poot k paanv paalne me to dikh hi jate hain.
lets review a perticular track on all three formatss on my rig. i did this mths ago and am reproducing it from memory:
track: ai zindagii gale laga le- sadma, ilaiya raja, cbs records.
my rig as you all can see is at best mediocre and compromised. denon in pure direct mode is great with good soundstaging and did clip just once in its lifetime when i connected the frontech multimeda sats to it.
wharfedale diamonds- what should i say, its the largest selling towers in past 100 yrs. if it were not for economics of scale, this ones would sure have a price tag of 125-160 k with a vfm rating of 3.5-4.25
at times when i get to listen to it unhindered (that is , it enchants even my 3-6 yo kids), everything is pure bliss. the soundstage, the soul, the feel of 'being there'. i know theres a big room for improvement, but a big chunk of improvement comes with right placement and room acoustics.
so:: stage 1- spinning sadma lp:
minuscule hiss prior to track... low noise floor, with the opening up of string piece you can feel the breeze caressing you and break of dawn too. as the track progresses you traverse into the recording studio and the electronic sound that follows would make laymen wonder if the bass and sharps are actually being sourced from a cleverly hidden cdp.
and then suresh wadkar starts singing. its just okay feeling. thats because when i listen to lataji or rafi saab on vinyl, i feel like earlier good systems made me feel like i was standing 'there' in the room, but this rig makes me feel like i ve jumped into the pensieve(ref. potterboy) thats their mouth and that i am watching their vocal cords move n croon in front of me.(entsurgeon.... stop it, you are pakaao'ing everybady.)
so... the song ends with a good feeling.
stage 2:
put a cassette in a reasonably warmed up nak.
nak is one wonderful thing and this perticular piece was bought in for a recording studio which went out of business so soon, this piece has been as good as new. with a noise floor so low, pressing play makes one wonder if it somehow mutes the ambient sound of the room or sends some noise cancellation signals to the loudspeakers.
sadma sings. and how. you dont feel like you are missing anything ... nak is a great match for pro ject sound. though sound is bit more compressed as compared, a proper blind a-b test will be barely 60% accurate for avg listener. for a seasoned guy the difference is there to appreciate. maybe i must get a great pre amp or phono stage.
well... suddenly, wadkar saab steps in.. and u get restless. you start checking whats wrong... ?? has the wharfes concked out after yrs of faithful service?? as vocals attract the limelight, u start to feel its shortcomings... vocals as well as pieces that are adorning the supportive role.
stage 3:
spin that vinyl again:
this time, your mind is trained to listen for the difference from first note. but youll have to work your brains so haard, you ll drive out the pleasure. however as the track progreeses and the music gets busier, you just keep wanting more without feeling you ve reached the limit. the rig churns out whatever is thrown at it....
you get up stop the lp and place the tape again... this time from an interlude .:
stage4:
the interlude..
as the track gets busier, things start getting clustered?? you know? like every instrument player is stepping into the room..... 24*18' is good for 4-8-16 players but now players are stepping in,.. 32-64.... everywhere there is sound .. and you feel like you are attending a carnival of the sorts where you know whats being played and your foot still stomps on it, but the organized-ness... the unity is cracking.
play the same piece with vinyl..... musicians are stepping into the room... 8-16-32-64....... it seems like the room in true harry potter fashion gets larger on inside to accomodate more players.
thats that.
while vinyl is quite good at either end of spectrum, tapes fall shortin matching the midrange . and yes... the soul stays longer with you when you spin vinyl.
with cds played on my basic lg dvdp, the less said the better. dont look for soul. you are listening to electronically vibrating paper cones that generate sound waves resembling songs to a wonderful degree. its an enjoyable feeling. but looking for soul- with my rig you have to be stupid enough to try bringing back the bygone to life like the second brother from beedle the bardz book.
i must say my rig isnt upto the mark for comparing the vinyl with cds. still, i think poot k paanv paalne me to dikh hi jate hain.
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@ajay, I dont think tubes and digital are mutually exclusive, as you seem to imply in multiple posts in this thread. I currently use a tubed dac that beats any CD player/DAC I have heard in its price range in resolution and matches them in extension
As for Vinyl, I am not sure whether its better or not but given how good digital sounds in my system currently, I cant be bothered to find out
As for Vinyl, I am not sure whether its better or not but given how good digital sounds in my system currently, I cant be bothered to find out
ajay124
Well-Known Member
jai1611
I have not implied anywhere that vinyl/digital or tube/solidstate is mutually exclusive. If something I wrote gives that impression, then it is purely accidental. I would love to own a second rig comprising of a turntable, phonostage, tube amp, standmounts and lots of vinyl recordings. All the things that I currently don't have. I think the primary reasons why most audiophiles opt for one or the other, is lack of money and lack of space.
entsurgeon
Good review. It appears that doctors don't ever shed their inquisitiveness about the human body. Not even when they are listening to music . I am sure many singers would suffer from stage fright, if they came to know that there were ENT surgeons waiting in the wings, to deconstruct their vocals abilities and peer into their vocal chords
You are one of the 'posterboys' of the vinyl and tube revolutions on the forum
Would you care to share your reminiscences of how you got into vinyl,
I guess I stand out as a tube and vinyl nut eh?
and why you prefer to traverse the globe in a 45. Did you give a fair hearing to digital and solid state music before moving into tubes/vinyl.
Well as far as I could. Listened to pretty much all there was on offer at an entry/mid budget range including a few exp stuff here and there, but spent a year searching and nothing seemed to satisfy (Ozzy would agree). Had been talking to Viren for a year, then finally saved enough to get his el84 tube amp. Had heard Cayins before and the Cadence tube stuff also, but Viren's philosophy of musicality first, seemed to match mine to a T hence took a chance with him. By this time from reading and research I knew what I really wanted to hear was a SET amp so when I ordered the EL84 push pull I told Viren I'd like a SET if he ever decided to make one. Luckily in about a year he did make the 2A3 amp, exchanged it and have been SET ever since. Never felt the need to upgrade. The why is answered in the next section. So practically I've listened to solid state but it never moved me enough to buy one. Valves and vinyl was my first buy and will be my last I think...
What are the major pro's and con's of your rig? Do you perceive any value in digital music and solid state amplification, which is lacking in your system?
The cons would be the low power so you can't really blast music. The top end is rolled off compared to normal speakers with tweeters. Bass is not as tight as it can be with solid state stuff. But what the system does produce is gorgeous involving music. The thing Ajay is my priorities in music and what the system offers match down to the last note. I spent more than 2 years reading up and researching what kind of system I'd like to have before jumping in and buying something and luckily it paid off in spades. Not one solid state amp I've heard so far comes close to the sheer immediacy and musicality of the 2A3 and more so, the 45 tube. Hifi terms take a backseat, musical terms take front row seats. If you judge it by hifi terms you'll find glaring gaps. If you put the same performance through the lenses of emotion and soul stirring you'll find more things to love. That's the difference and that's my priority in the way I like to listen. Most solid state stuff also hurts my ears on extended listening. It sounds hard. Another big plus point is unlike some systems where you have to pump up the volume for the drivers to start making music, with the single driver SET amp, you can listen at low volumes and its the same as high volume listening. And of course a big PRO is the tubes one can swap in and out, changing the sound in infinite permutations and combinations, it's like presentations you can put on at will, a light summery feel, a warm, by the fireside glow presentation, a neutral extended one and so much more. Besides glowing tubes just look downright sexy. Gonna get one for my office desk too soon, rip vinyl and listen to it thru my iPod at work. What's not to like, convenience, tube magic and vinyl sound!!! :licklips:
I experimented with a reasonably decent DAC, the Wadia, found it sounded much better than most good CD players but still sounded artificial and hollow compared to my worst LP. So sold it off. Might get a decent DAC later on for Internet radio but with the understanding that it's a way to make a hopeless digital stream sound a bit better.
To sum up, I'd still say its a very personal call, the background one comes from, the priorities one has. Hope the rambling helped!
ajay124
Well-Known Member
Thank you stevieboy. Great post! If I ever move to vinyl or tube sound, you will be held partly responsible
Will the other enthusiastic propenents of vinyl or tube sound care to share their reminiscences and passion. Rajeev? Manav? Asit ? Mahiruha? Myriad? Arj? Anybody else?
Any volunteers for mounting a defense for digital/solid state sound. Prem? Dinyaar? Dr. Bass ? Squarewave? Sidvee? Others?
I have stated my reasons for my current preference in another thread. But I will repeat them.
Most of the music that I listen to would not be available on vinyl.
I have got used to the 60-70 minute running time of a cd.
I do not want to keep changing the music frequently.
I prefer the convenience and trouble free nature of a cdp/solid state amp.
Importing 100- 200 vinyls for building a fairly decent collection would be frightfully expensive. The good vinyl recordings of classical music, which I have come across, cost around 20 pounds each or even more. Enough to buy a box set of cds!
I am under the impression that vinyls get damaged after a certain amount of time, and would sooner or later become scratchy, noisy and troublesome. I have cds which are 20 years old, and have been played a countless number of times (
Dylan/ Biograph, Young/ Rust Never Sleeps, Davis/ A Kind Of Blue, Coltrane/My Favorite Things, Karajan / Beethoven, Menuhin/ Bach), but are still in great shape!
I am not sure whether vinyl or tubes would be able to handle the dynamics of orchestral music. Guess I need to take a few auditions!
I have already spent far beyond my budget. I am not mentally prepared at the moment to make another big splash.
I am happy with what I have at the moment. I just begun researching vinyl. Perhaps I will become a 'believer' one day ! But I would initially prefer to buy a tube amp and listen to my existing cds. Vinyl would require far greatet commitment and conviction.
Will the other enthusiastic propenents of vinyl or tube sound care to share their reminiscences and passion. Rajeev? Manav? Asit ? Mahiruha? Myriad? Arj? Anybody else?
Any volunteers for mounting a defense for digital/solid state sound. Prem? Dinyaar? Dr. Bass ? Squarewave? Sidvee? Others?
I have stated my reasons for my current preference in another thread. But I will repeat them.
Most of the music that I listen to would not be available on vinyl.
I have got used to the 60-70 minute running time of a cd.
I do not want to keep changing the music frequently.
I prefer the convenience and trouble free nature of a cdp/solid state amp.
Importing 100- 200 vinyls for building a fairly decent collection would be frightfully expensive. The good vinyl recordings of classical music, which I have come across, cost around 20 pounds each or even more. Enough to buy a box set of cds!
I am under the impression that vinyls get damaged after a certain amount of time, and would sooner or later become scratchy, noisy and troublesome. I have cds which are 20 years old, and have been played a countless number of times (
Dylan/ Biograph, Young/ Rust Never Sleeps, Davis/ A Kind Of Blue, Coltrane/My Favorite Things, Karajan / Beethoven, Menuhin/ Bach), but are still in great shape!
I am not sure whether vinyl or tubes would be able to handle the dynamics of orchestral music. Guess I need to take a few auditions!
I have already spent far beyond my budget. I am not mentally prepared at the moment to make another big splash.
I am happy with what I have at the moment. I just begun researching vinyl. Perhaps I will become a 'believer' one day ! But I would initially prefer to buy a tube amp and listen to my existing cds. Vinyl would require far greatet commitment and conviction.
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entsurgeon
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2010
- Messages
- 591
- Points
- 43
Vinyls get scratchy if not cared for. Superficial scratches dont register. If you are vigilant like any hfv member, a 50 yo vinyl is as good as pressed a year ago.
In a country like ours, vinyl would last longer thn any taper or silver platter.
In a country like ours, vinyl would last longer thn any taper or silver platter.
Hi Ajay
I have a tube amp not solid state but thats because i have high sensitivity speakers.
When it comes to digital, I would any day buy an entry level table over an entry level cd player. But when you go higher up the chain, its a matter of preference.
As far as amp goes it is dictated by the speakers one uses. When i had the Logans, i had 400W monoblocs to drive them. Its foolish to even attempt using a tube amp for such speakers. Most dynamic speakers with 85-90 db sensitivity will demand a reasonably high powered amp. In most of these cases tubes are not an option. Today i have high sensitivity single driver speakers. They come on song with a few watts. Hence tube amps are a great option. Tomorrow if i change my speakers i will also in all probability change my amp to suit those speakers.
I have a tube amp not solid state but thats because i have high sensitivity speakers.
When it comes to digital, I would any day buy an entry level table over an entry level cd player. But when you go higher up the chain, its a matter of preference.
As far as amp goes it is dictated by the speakers one uses. When i had the Logans, i had 400W monoblocs to drive them. Its foolish to even attempt using a tube amp for such speakers. Most dynamic speakers with 85-90 db sensitivity will demand a reasonably high powered amp. In most of these cases tubes are not an option. Today i have high sensitivity single driver speakers. They come on song with a few watts. Hence tube amps are a great option. Tomorrow if i change my speakers i will also in all probability change my amp to suit those speakers.
Hey I am not a proponent of any tech i have a Vinyl rig only for playing hindi music which are not great on CD..for everything i still like the cdplayer..
as for the leben, more than it being a tube, itssynergy with neutral speakers is what i chose it for. not the tubes.
For me its the destination (Music) and not the mode of transport (tech)
. convenience is also a big thing and i DONT like the following about the LP- changing the LP side after 3-4 tracks on the LP
- Not being able to replay a fantastic track for 30mins waiting for the LP to "Heal"
-the cleaning..
the sound is pretty good though..
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just4kix
Well-Known Member
One of the supposedly greatest advantages of the compact disc was long life, proof against scratches, etc.
Yet my vinyl records of 1970s-80s, though somewhat scratched, are still playing great but my CDs, having no 'visible' scratches, jump or get stuck. Some of original DVDs have started failing although I think this is more because the reader is unable to switch between layers.
So to me digital technology is just as frail.
Yet my vinyl records of 1970s-80s, though somewhat scratched, are still playing great but my CDs, having no 'visible' scratches, jump or get stuck. Some of original DVDs have started failing although I think this is more because the reader is unable to switch between layers.
So to me digital technology is just as frail.
Thank you stevieboy. Great post! If I ever move to vinyl or tube sound, you will be held partly responsible
Most welcome Ajay,
I'd be happy to have helped if you ever move to vinyl or tubes
It is much easier if you are in a city with access to second hand vinyl.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pratimbayal
Active Member
Nice thread Ajay-nice to know vinyl experenice from seasoned members.
I initiated vinyl venture primarily to listen famous bengali songs from 60s-80s and bollywood playbacks which are not good on CD . The begining was very sudden when I came to know our member myriad was upgrading his TT and would be selling his Project RPM 4 . I bought it and started paying with some old vinyls purchased from street side vendor.Though I was aware that old vinyls are available in our lovely Kolkata - I did not had any direct experience- Myriad , Mahiruha helped me . Apart from that underlying noise ,the sound was much better than CDs for those songs .
Eventually I started buying hindustani classical and found them also to sound better in vinyl. Asit hinted about western classical on vinyl - and I statred buying . Try to buy those mentiond by Ajay -but not all are available in good condition. And yes western classical ( Deutche Gramaphone , Decca , EMI) sounds just superb in vinyl - huge sound stage and dynamics -simply unmatched. ( you need to ignore the vinyl noise )
Now a days 70% of my listening is in Hindustani and western classical and enjoying throughly in vinyl.
However for those music recored digitally - I restrict to listen CD only- sounds better
A major constrain is cost - easy avaliability of old vinyl ( used or totally unplayed) in our Kolkata made things easy. Searching for old vinyls on the streets of kolkata gives a great nostalgic feeling -my love for the city increased once again. However have started buying new vinyl also but at much lower speed.
To day morning I was listening to Niel Diamond - essential compilation on imported CD and the "Jazz Singer " on vinyl - vinyl sound was superior more live. I was lisenting to Raag "Shaym Kalyan " by Ravi Shankar (EMI) in vinyl and sounded much better compared to CD.
I collected choplin by Rubinstein ( RCA Vector) Mozart by Stuttgart Chamber orchestra ( Mono recording-Decca) Tchaikowsky by Karajan ( Duetsche Gramaphone ) all sounding great
And my SS amp is doing mervalous job both with CD and Vinyl
Once again suggesting Ajay to "spoil" yourself through vinyl venture.
My next upgrade would be a better TT in near future.
Cheers
I initiated vinyl venture primarily to listen famous bengali songs from 60s-80s and bollywood playbacks which are not good on CD . The begining was very sudden when I came to know our member myriad was upgrading his TT and would be selling his Project RPM 4 . I bought it and started paying with some old vinyls purchased from street side vendor.Though I was aware that old vinyls are available in our lovely Kolkata - I did not had any direct experience- Myriad , Mahiruha helped me . Apart from that underlying noise ,the sound was much better than CDs for those songs .
Eventually I started buying hindustani classical and found them also to sound better in vinyl. Asit hinted about western classical on vinyl - and I statred buying . Try to buy those mentiond by Ajay -but not all are available in good condition. And yes western classical ( Deutche Gramaphone , Decca , EMI) sounds just superb in vinyl - huge sound stage and dynamics -simply unmatched. ( you need to ignore the vinyl noise )
Now a days 70% of my listening is in Hindustani and western classical and enjoying throughly in vinyl.
However for those music recored digitally - I restrict to listen CD only- sounds better
A major constrain is cost - easy avaliability of old vinyl ( used or totally unplayed) in our Kolkata made things easy. Searching for old vinyls on the streets of kolkata gives a great nostalgic feeling -my love for the city increased once again. However have started buying new vinyl also but at much lower speed.
To day morning I was listening to Niel Diamond - essential compilation on imported CD and the "Jazz Singer " on vinyl - vinyl sound was superior more live. I was lisenting to Raag "Shaym Kalyan " by Ravi Shankar (EMI) in vinyl and sounded much better compared to CD.
I collected choplin by Rubinstein ( RCA Vector) Mozart by Stuttgart Chamber orchestra ( Mono recording-Decca) Tchaikowsky by Karajan ( Duetsche Gramaphone ) all sounding great
And my SS amp is doing mervalous job both with CD and Vinyl
Once again suggesting Ajay to "spoil" yourself through vinyl venture.
My next upgrade would be a better TT in near future.
Cheers
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Dear Ajay,
You have had several lovely threads going and this one's no exception. My problem is that at times I get so busy at work that I hardly ever get a chance to participate, and when I do, it is usually in one particular thread and that too very sporadically. But there are so many very knowledgeable and good-natured folks in this forum that you never miss a single person. Right now I am quietly helped by a few people in my search for a decent turntable at an affordable cost.
I have had a Dual CS5000 TT for the last 21 years. Barring the last few years, it was perfectly operational, although very very lightly used, because I never had a large collection of vinyl. I did not change anything in that TT (other than occasional fiddling with the cartridge and arm setting) and it suited me fine because of my tight schedule. I like the ready-to-go format and never really picked up the vinyl format in a big way.
Now that I want to get a new TT, I am trying to learn a thing or two about a TT. Actually there are more than just a thing or two there - the plinth, the platter, the motor, the drive, the arm, the arm mount, the cartridge, the stylus - tipped or nude, elliptical, or fine line, shibata etc, the adjustments of the arm and cartridge, the bearings, the effective tone arm mass, the compliance of the cartridge, the resonant frequency, the cabling inside the arm etc etc. If I have the time, I would like to start a thread on such things and invite the experts to write about each of the above in a way so that people at large can understand the relative importance of all these which together can make or break the sound. Of course there is an electrical part (like the motor I mentioned above), but the specialty of a turntable is that it is mostly a mechanical device, and that's what makes it a fascinating subject, and generally a laboratory sort of experience for one to fiddle around with settings.
What do I get from the vinyl sound? A more natural presentation. Closer to the live experience. Of course one has to live with the idiosyncrasies of the medium.
I am happy that vinyl is back. And yes, in Kolkata one gets what I call NOS (new old stock) vinyls at throw-away prices on the streets, especially on Dharmatala Street, near the Wellesley Square side of the stretch from the Esplanade.
On the subject of tube gear, I agree 100% with arj. I do not like too bloomy a sound, and may not be able to live with too many other tube amps than the Leben, perhaps not even some of the quite famous ones. I am also equally happy with SS gear, if the typical hardness (usually called SS glare) is taken out. Recently I heard the Odyssey Kismet amp (Pratim's) with my speakers, and it is one SS amp I have deeply liked. I am also not ready to do away with the frequency extremes. They are very important for me and my kind of music (this is contrary to common belief, which is: Hindustani classical needs only mid-range). I have a pair of highly sensitive 3-way bass reflex speakers (with 10" woofers and beautiful tweeters) coupling to my 12 wpc tube amp. Obviously, all this is expression of my personal preference, since you wanted to know. But obviously this is not the only approach in the world.
Regards.
You have had several lovely threads going and this one's no exception. My problem is that at times I get so busy at work that I hardly ever get a chance to participate, and when I do, it is usually in one particular thread and that too very sporadically. But there are so many very knowledgeable and good-natured folks in this forum that you never miss a single person. Right now I am quietly helped by a few people in my search for a decent turntable at an affordable cost.
I have had a Dual CS5000 TT for the last 21 years. Barring the last few years, it was perfectly operational, although very very lightly used, because I never had a large collection of vinyl. I did not change anything in that TT (other than occasional fiddling with the cartridge and arm setting) and it suited me fine because of my tight schedule. I like the ready-to-go format and never really picked up the vinyl format in a big way.
Now that I want to get a new TT, I am trying to learn a thing or two about a TT. Actually there are more than just a thing or two there - the plinth, the platter, the motor, the drive, the arm, the arm mount, the cartridge, the stylus - tipped or nude, elliptical, or fine line, shibata etc, the adjustments of the arm and cartridge, the bearings, the effective tone arm mass, the compliance of the cartridge, the resonant frequency, the cabling inside the arm etc etc. If I have the time, I would like to start a thread on such things and invite the experts to write about each of the above in a way so that people at large can understand the relative importance of all these which together can make or break the sound. Of course there is an electrical part (like the motor I mentioned above), but the specialty of a turntable is that it is mostly a mechanical device, and that's what makes it a fascinating subject, and generally a laboratory sort of experience for one to fiddle around with settings.
What do I get from the vinyl sound? A more natural presentation. Closer to the live experience. Of course one has to live with the idiosyncrasies of the medium.
I am happy that vinyl is back. And yes, in Kolkata one gets what I call NOS (new old stock) vinyls at throw-away prices on the streets, especially on Dharmatala Street, near the Wellesley Square side of the stretch from the Esplanade.
On the subject of tube gear, I agree 100% with arj. I do not like too bloomy a sound, and may not be able to live with too many other tube amps than the Leben, perhaps not even some of the quite famous ones. I am also equally happy with SS gear, if the typical hardness (usually called SS glare) is taken out. Recently I heard the Odyssey Kismet amp (Pratim's) with my speakers, and it is one SS amp I have deeply liked. I am also not ready to do away with the frequency extremes. They are very important for me and my kind of music (this is contrary to common belief, which is: Hindustani classical needs only mid-range). I have a pair of highly sensitive 3-way bass reflex speakers (with 10" woofers and beautiful tweeters) coupling to my 12 wpc tube amp. Obviously, all this is expression of my personal preference, since you wanted to know. But obviously this is not the only approach in the world.
Regards.
Last edited:
ajay124
Well-Known Member
pratim
Searching for old vinyls on the streets of kolkata gives a great nostalgic feeling -my love for the city increased once again
A lot of our notions about the highway leading into the future are imported from the west. One of the notions we have imported and allowed to take root in our cities and towns is globalization. The world is flat. I have not read the bestselling book by Thomas Friedman or similar literature. Even while doing MBA, I used to find my management books, and all the theories invented by the 'behavioral scientist', boring to read. I preferred borrowing Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Kafka, Camus, Flaubert and Stendhal from the university library rather than Maslow, Herzberg, McGregor and Taylor! Needless to say I was a very 'wayward' student. Unfit material for a flat, homogenous, profit and productivity oriented organization
The point of the above ruminations is, that the globalization sweeping across the entire world, is flattening out all the culture, colour, idiosyncrasies and excitement from the great cities of the world. And all our five big metros qualify for that label. I do not find the prospect of every city becoming a 'builder's fantasy' of malls and high rises, and a 'marketing' fantasy of cloned consumers all consuming the same brands and the same food very promising or inspiring.
A few years ago I visited a Bengali friend who lives in Kolkata. I am a foodie and was looking forward to checking out Bengali food and sweets. My friend was good enough to take me around to plenty of joints serving the local cuisine. Wonderful! The best food experience was in small unpretentious shops in the by lanes and allies of the city. Although, I was not very impressed by the chinese food served in Chinatown. My memories of the fabulous food I had on a holiday in China, do not allow me to enjoy 'Indian' chinese.
I hope that our cities don't 'progress' to a point, where all the old is lost forever. Replaced by a new which is as unpalatable as a fast food snack, whose tissue wrapping tastes better than the 'main course' inside.
I hope our cities retain the 'colour' and 'character' which so many of our forum members find in vinyl and tube amps. Sometimes old is really gold!
Searching for old vinyls on the streets of kolkata gives a great nostalgic feeling -my love for the city increased once again
A lot of our notions about the highway leading into the future are imported from the west. One of the notions we have imported and allowed to take root in our cities and towns is globalization. The world is flat. I have not read the bestselling book by Thomas Friedman or similar literature. Even while doing MBA, I used to find my management books, and all the theories invented by the 'behavioral scientist', boring to read. I preferred borrowing Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Kafka, Camus, Flaubert and Stendhal from the university library rather than Maslow, Herzberg, McGregor and Taylor! Needless to say I was a very 'wayward' student. Unfit material for a flat, homogenous, profit and productivity oriented organization
The point of the above ruminations is, that the globalization sweeping across the entire world, is flattening out all the culture, colour, idiosyncrasies and excitement from the great cities of the world. And all our five big metros qualify for that label. I do not find the prospect of every city becoming a 'builder's fantasy' of malls and high rises, and a 'marketing' fantasy of cloned consumers all consuming the same brands and the same food very promising or inspiring.
A few years ago I visited a Bengali friend who lives in Kolkata. I am a foodie and was looking forward to checking out Bengali food and sweets. My friend was good enough to take me around to plenty of joints serving the local cuisine. Wonderful! The best food experience was in small unpretentious shops in the by lanes and allies of the city. Although, I was not very impressed by the chinese food served in Chinatown. My memories of the fabulous food I had on a holiday in China, do not allow me to enjoy 'Indian' chinese.
I hope that our cities don't 'progress' to a point, where all the old is lost forever. Replaced by a new which is as unpalatable as a fast food snack, whose tissue wrapping tastes better than the 'main course' inside.
I hope our cities retain the 'colour' and 'character' which so many of our forum members find in vinyl and tube amps. Sometimes old is really gold!
avidyarthy
Well-Known Member
Thanks, thats a nice piece of info ... thought Free School Street was one of the likely places for it.
Would make it a point to visit there during my planned trip to Kolkata early next month.
pratimbayal
Active Member
Ajay
I also believe in the same way .Actualy still today - there is a kolkata with in kolkata , I think this is true for every city. One part is getting "mordenised " by globalisation bug killing our emotions in the process and the other part is struggling to maintain the emotion and local tradition . I try to live in the second part . We are loosing our language , customs , freindships and creative souls - I really doubt whether the pace of modern technology brings in any upliftment in mental status for which we "man" are distinguished from "animal".In the process we are making our life complex day by day and in turn increasing our requirement. For example the modern medicine may be at very advanced stage but we do not know wtherther that has actually increased our average life of physical efficiency if we count human history from ages ( in mythology people lived 200/300 years). If we take from Russel- more "advanced " society has more infertility - for which there are whole lot of "advanced treatment" in modern medicine.
I think globally appreaciation for good art and music is decreasing day by day
You ask any one from Kolkata about changing emotions and enviornment of college street - will get a story of utter disappointment about disappearing creativity.
Regards
I also believe in the same way .Actualy still today - there is a kolkata with in kolkata , I think this is true for every city. One part is getting "mordenised " by globalisation bug killing our emotions in the process and the other part is struggling to maintain the emotion and local tradition . I try to live in the second part . We are loosing our language , customs , freindships and creative souls - I really doubt whether the pace of modern technology brings in any upliftment in mental status for which we "man" are distinguished from "animal".In the process we are making our life complex day by day and in turn increasing our requirement. For example the modern medicine may be at very advanced stage but we do not know wtherther that has actually increased our average life of physical efficiency if we count human history from ages ( in mythology people lived 200/300 years). If we take from Russel- more "advanced " society has more infertility - for which there are whole lot of "advanced treatment" in modern medicine.
I think globally appreaciation for good art and music is decreasing day by day
You ask any one from Kolkata about changing emotions and enviornment of college street - will get a story of utter disappointment about disappearing creativity.
Regards
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