To enjoy Pink Floyd...

[jls001]

Either it was too bright or it was confusing to follow the music. The instruments get lost, so do the rhythm as the music is so very complex in certain cases. The at-your-face aggressive presentation has never worked with Pink Floyd.

I think the above lines describes his dilemma. His setup is able to do "girl and guitar" (i.e. simpler music), but falters when the going gets complex.

As Prem and others pointed out, the issue may not be due to the speakers alone. Unfortunately the issue is not straightforward and there is no simple solution other to keep swapping everything in the chain, one by one.

 

[manoj.p]

I think the above lines describes his dilemma. His setup is able to do "girl and guitar" (i.e. simpler music), but falters when the going gets complex.

As Prem and others pointed out, the issue may not be due to the speakers alone. Unfortunately the issue is not straightforward and there is no simple solution other to keep swapping everything in the chain, one by one.

If the above is the case, then seems like his system is lacking the dynamic and may be too bright. His current speakers Zensor 1 sensitivity is 86 dB which is on lower side. The Sonodyne amp supplies 100 Watts at 4 ohm and that's clipping sound. The speaker needs more power and may be the amp is lagging. Which is explained by simpler music. There is ample power for just vocals and few instruments. But when things are complex, lots of instruments playing, then the amp + speaker combo is limping. Another cue is the "in your face" presentation. That means system is more bright. Again high frequencies need less power.

Shibashis: May be for time being, try a more powerful amp or higher sensitivity speaker. See if the dynamics are better that way. Since you already know the problem, it won't hurt to just borrow a powerful amp (does not matter if its not audiophile) and see if power is your problem.

 

[Santy]

Shibashis; I feel you must first figure out the weakest gear in the chain causing the congestion that you are experiencing. Like others said, in your setup, the speakers are unlikely to be. You can borrow a good DAC and an amp from an FM / friend staying nearby and experiment by replacing one at a time. No point in upgrading from 25k speaker to 30k speaker unless your original choice was pretty bad which I do not think is the case here. You can upgrade your DAC and amp first and meanwhile save up for a good pair of speakers. Poor quality speaker cables / ICs can also result in compression of dynamics.

 

[shibashis]

Thank you all for suggestions and inputs. This is Durga Puja time in Kolkata and so I have little time to spend here unfortunately.
I fully understand and agree with suggestions that the weakest component in the chain is much to blame for the present situation, and that is the amplifier/DAC pair, no question about it. Even then I am leaning toward a new set of speakers, I owe an explanation why.

In the living room I have now both my HT (Yamaha AVR + Sonodyne 1501 fronts + Roar 210 Sub) and the stereo (Sonodyne Sia 320 amp + Dali Zensor 1), but the living room is not appropriate for music listening. The speaker positioning is far from ideal and there is a constant crowd, clutter, noise and distraction, as a result it is not a satisfactory experience to listen to music there, add to that it also doubles up as my work place. While HT is ok, music is not, and so I decided to shift the stereo setup to the bedroom, much better suited and quiet. Now the Yamaha AVR and Sonodyne fronts are acceptable for HT but not for music (it was an year and half back, not anymore to me). I want the HT setup to be at least palatable so it can work for casual music listening, when entertaining friends and family, as a result the present Dali Zensors will likely be added to the HT as fronts while the Sonodynes will move to the back as surrounds. So now I need a new pair of speakers for the actual stereo in the bedroom. That is why the search for speakers first. This stereo in the bedroom, I have high hopes for it in my limited understanding, affordability and other limitations.
Right now I can afford the speakers and they will go with the Sonodyne amplifier, as I mentioned before the amp upgrade will happen in a few months time, then perhaps a DAC as well.

I see all the suggestions and advises and it is great of everyone willing to help sincerely, I hope to keep all this in mind as I build the stereo one step at a time.

Let the discussion continue and for me the learning bit too!

 

[shibashis]

I am updating after a good month, today I had a free Sunday and decided to listen to some speakers.
One note of importance is that I have picked up a Cambridge Audio 550A amplifier recently through the forum, it was purchased in Gurgaon by my brother and he will be bringing it to Kolkata this 12th November.

I visited Harmonie Audio and here is what I heard there:

Usher B520:
--------------

Right from the very moment they started playing it was apparent to me the Ushers had a special quality about them which is seldom found with speakers at this price-point (the matt-wooden finish was available for 32K!).
We started with Dire Straits, Mark Knopfler surrealistically started singing 6 feet straight ahead of me and the sound flowed all around me. I craned my neck to the right and then to the left, no, could not make out where the speakers were. It all still felt it was being performed live right in front of me.
I felt these were precise, clean and 'tell-all' sort of speakers. Precisely rhythmic without masking or smoothing over anything. Due to their size however they were a little 'lean', low end presence was fairly weak. However impeccable soundstage and the sheer lucidity of vocals made me love them. I mean it when I say next when I played some Bengali Rabindrasngeet , the vocals were literally being whispered to my ears. I have never had that experience before.

Q Acoustic:
------------

After the Ushers it was the turn of the Q Acoustic Concept 20s. Soundstage was only second to the Ushers, vocals still sounded lucid, smooth and clean. With their deeper cabinets they had more weight behind the music, but lacked the fluidity of the Ushers. Somehow different musical arrangements sounded better on the Ushers, the Concept 20s were only slightly behind. These were quoted at 43K pair and available. At that point I was struggling a little to justify the price, I had already heard the Usher...a little later I would question that price much more.

I asked for the 2020i now, have been reading a lot of good things about them recently.
I won't write much about these, sound signature was similar to the Concept 20s, but these are not as refined / polished, neither that smooth. However they had more punch, nice enjoyable mids and a little subdued high, not as airy but still nice. For clinical listening Concept 20s will win, but in some ways the 2020i were more fun to listen to, principally due to greater low end presence, even though it sacrificed the clarity.
These were well within my budget, which I have now stretched to 35K. By now I had spent more than 40 minutes listening different speakers and was getting ready to leave.
The guy demoing these asked me to listen to the big Usher V601 bookshelves, much beyond my budget but I thought listening to them never hurts and I will learn a little more about quality speakers.

Usher V601:
--------------

The result was in about 2 minutes I felt I was being seduced by the sound. A guilty pleasure almost akin to a love forbidden by your parents because you are too young to understand the gravitas. Understand what I write, it was seduction, sumptuous, lusty and gratifying. They played The Wall live, one of my regrets was that I could and never will be able to attend a Pink Floyd live concert, that weighs a little less heavy now, I closed my eyes and presumed it could not sound much better live. They went deep, had the kick and weight and body that was missing on the S520. Crisp, balanced, rhythmic.
This was 48K pair, and the concept 20 were 43K, I have to say that the Usher was so much superior to the Concept 20. I was sold, but it is beyond my budget by quite a lot.
Later I was told that they can go to 42K for me, still stretching quite a bit.

I want those, but....is there anything comparable in my price range?

I heard the KEF Q300 at ProFx, good, quite good, but that seductive touch of the Usehers were missing. Q300 came second in today's race, but were admirable performers. Prominent vocals, good soundstage, clear mids. Compared to the Usher does not go as deep, nor does it have such weight and presence in music. With the Ushers there was almost a tangible quality to the music. The Q300s came the closest to that, just not quite.

Many people are talking about the Dali Zensor 3s, and some have gone on to say quite definitively that they are better than the KEF Q300. The Dalis are not available at the moment and are due sometime this or next week. They are next in my line. I feel now I am down to three,

1) Usher V601
2) KEF Q300
3) Dali Zensor 3

In spite of being over my budget I feel a terrible temptation to get the Usher, does not auger very well for savings pension plans.....my only hope now is that the Dalis somehow can come close to them at 10000 lesser of the price.

 

[shibashis]

I am also thinking to hear the Quad 11L available with Wattefffects, can not hurt just listening.

 

[mpw]

Wait for Nov 12 and decide with your amp and not before that.

Sonosphere has the v601 I think and though I have not heard them they look good on paper but the acid test will be with your amp.

Mpw

 

[Kannan]

Since you use PC as a source with a USB DAC and foobar, why not experiment with an active setup. With your AVR you can achieve this with 1 amp + an active sub or with 2 power amps and an active sub.
You can source some good woofers and a wideband driver for a 3-way active setup or add a tweeter with a cap for a 4-way quasi active setup.
It would cost you just 1/10th of buying a high end speaker.

 

[rahuljonline]

I'm a big Surround sound fan. And no band captures the possibilities of Surround sound than Pink Floyd. Their mastered DTS mixes are amazing and truly captures the space-rock feel of Dark Side of the Moon. Do try all of their official DTS mixes. These are available in the new box sets.

 

[shibashis]

Some update:

I have now a Cambridge Audio Azur 550A amplifier, happy to have it.
It is better than the Sonodyne in almost all aspects, but the Sonodyne had more robust and bolder vocals. Hopefully the amplifier is better suited to handle Pink Floyd and other complex music than the Sonodynes, I now need bookshelf speakers that match with CA.
Increased the budget to 40K. Positioning restrictions mean I prefer front-ported speakers. Choices are limited as I have mentioned before.

I have loved the Usher V601, but they were paired with Marantz, should they sound as good with Cambridge Audio?

Monitor Audio is nowhere available in Kolkata, really wanted to hear these.

Looked for MS Mezzo 2 as well, supposedly they pair well with CA gear, but they are not to be found here either.

B&W 685 S2 was quite good, but everything it did, the Ushers did a little better. There is a considerable price difference as well.

So any suggestions?

 

[himanita]

I love listening to Floyd in audio shows too instead of jazz and classical that everyone plays.

I heard Tyler Acoustics Highland H3s that sounded stunning. While the speakers are not available outside the US or even in the price point, they had scanspeak drivers which I think contributed a lot to the sound.

So my long winded way of saying that you could consider scanspeak based speakers. Perhaps a kit??

hi
kindly try plinius amp from newziland

 

[shibashis]

I want to provide a little update:

Recently I acquired an used CA Azur 550A amplifier through the forum, that is now powering my speakers, the Sonodyne is not in use anymore.

For other music I can notice the improvements and I have noted the same on another thread. Most here would agree that CA Azur 550 is still an entry level amplifier, but even then listening to Pink Floyd makes quite a difference, right now I am listening to A Momentary Lapse of Reason, gone are the cluttered indistinguishable layers of music, now it is quite well defined, you can follow the tune and go where it takes you without being confused sound-wise.

Now the turn of speakers...soon enough.

 

[IndianEars]

"A Momentary Lapse of Reason" is a Superb dics to critically evaluate a stereo setup.

The sound keeps getting better and less congested as the replay System quality improves.

"Dogs Of War" typically sounds Noisy and congested on lesser systems.

You will continue to hear improvements as you move up the quality ladder...

 

[Nikhil]

Shibashis,

Take your amp with you to the showroom and listen to the Ushers once again.
CA is well regarded - there should be no reason you should not try the combo.

Audio is a journey - enjoy each stage. As you learn more you will hear more into the music. For this you should take time to listen to different setups and get an appreciation of what sounds you like. Take reviews and suggestions with a grain of salt. What matters most is your own ears and what you like.

All the best!

 

[shafic]

Audio is a journey - enjoy each stage. As you learn more you will hear more into the music. For this you should take time to listen to different setups and get an appreciation of what sounds you like. Take reviews and suggestions with a grain of salt. What matters most is your own ears and what you like.

+1 to you, sir!!

 

[shibashis]

Shibashis,

Take your amp with you to the showroom and listen to the Ushers once again.
CA is well regarded - there should be no reason you should not try the combo.

Audio is a journey - enjoy each stage. As you learn more you will hear more into the music. For this you should take time to listen to different setups and get an appreciation of what sounds you like. Take reviews and suggestions with a grain of salt. What matters most is your own ears and what you like.

All the best!

Oh I am enjoying the journey alright! It started about 10 years back when I got my first computer with Mercury 4.1 speakers.
Then with my little money I bought a Creative Sound Blaster Live! sound card and I was on my way. It's been quite a winding climb but I am glad for it, and glad to have the enthusiasm to keep on climbing or at least trying to.
I am not sure if there ever will be a final destination on this path, I am quite sure though that I am on this road to enjoy the journey itself.
Learning here has been such a pleasure, thanks to people like you.

I actually went and dove in, got myself the Usher V601. I did not audition them with Cambridge Audio first but took the plunge anyway. My initial budget was 30K max, but then I decided to make an investment that will last me for some time, and more importantly the logic was that it should be able to keep pace with future upgrades of my electronics and other components in the chain. Considering that the Ushers to me fit the bill and I went for them.

I must admit that CA and Ushers are not the best combination, Marantz was far better, but I am not too worried, the Ushers are here, I will experiment some with them and later I can always get a Marantz when opportunity permits.