TT for beginner - Need advice

[Dr.Bass]

Congratulations on being one more step closer to spinning some vinyl Amitnoida if you're considering the rega consider the origin live ones. Might as well spend a bit more and get a good tonearm in the beginning itself.

Regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have heard the Origin Live tonearms in different TT configurations, and my impression about them remains that they have a glare in the upper mids. It is not a relaxed, balanced sounding tonearm like a Rega. The Rega RB700 is a super tonearm for the price, very musical and great PRAT.

 

[jls001]

I have heard the Origin Live tonearms in different TT configurations, and my impression about them remains that they have a glare in the upper mids. It is not a relaxed, balanced sounding tonearm like a Rega. The Rega RB700 is a super tonearm for the price, very musical and great PRAT.

@Dr Bass: which OL arms have you heard? In which TTs?


Any idea how the RB 600 compare to the 700? I found used 600 so asking in case you have experience of 600 too.

I'm pushing to penultimate stage of my arm search

 

[Dr.Bass]

@Dr Bass: which OL arms have you heard? In which TTs?


Any idea how the RB 600 compare to the 700? I found used 600 so asking in case you have experience of 600 too.

I'm pushing to penultimate stage of my arm search

I have heard the Encounter and Illustrious on Origin live TTs (Resolution and Sovereign).

I am not sure about 600 vs 700. The 600 is better than 300 though which is also a nice arm for the price. The 700 is the real deal though. If you are getting the 600 a lot cheaper than 700 then go for it. Use the savings on other areas.

 

[Asit]

Amit,
My experience and knowledge is very limited. However, my suggestion to you would be along a bit different line. I wouldn't be honest if I did not place it before you. Apologies in advance.

Getting a great TT like a Premier with a good arm+cart is of course good. However, if it were me, I would perhaps go with a Cello (it is a very good TT, make no mistake about it) and invest the money saved towards acquiring a pair of speakers that match well with your Leben. As you are aware now, your speakers are not the best match for the Leben (I said this when you were in the process of buying them) and you are not getting what the little Leben is capable of producing (which is about 90% of the very best at a tiny fraction of the cost, but only if you pair it well). In my opinion, this way you shall get better overall sonics from your whole system. Please forgive me for my naive view perhaps.

Regards.

 

[Bluu]

Amit, why not buy the Denon from Jochen himself? He offered it to me when I was researching.

 

[stevieboy]

I have heard the Origin Live tonearms in different TT configurations, and my impression about them remains that they have a glare in the upper mids. It is not a relaxed, balanced sounding tonearm like a Rega. The Rega RB700 is a super tonearm for the price, very musical and great PRAT.

Hi Dr. Bass,

The impression I retain from reading different user reviews is that its not relaxed, its quite dynamic and lively. Perhaps the silver wire creates that glare you hear? I faintly remember some of the models having silver wire options...? You're indeed lucky to get to hear all the stuff we can only read about :sad:

Regards

 

[prem]

Hi Stevieboy


Look at this way. More options, more confusions. I do not know which i would prefer?

 

[stevieboy]

LOL so true Prem, so true! Man, one can go nuts with the many nuances of each option available. Come to think of it, I'd certainly prefer a peaceful life with limited options cos I take ages to decide on anything...

Regards

 

[Dr.Bass]

You're indeed lucky to get to hear all the stuff we can only read about :sad:

Regards

Oh yea, I am lucky to have heard so many bad examples of analogue playback. At least now I know analogue is not all nice and rosy, and digital is not all crap and BS.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Amit,
My experience and knowledge is very limited. However, my suggestion to you would be along a bit different line. I wouldn't be honest if I did not place it before you. Apologies in advance.

Getting a great TT like a Premier with a good arm+cart is of course good. However, if it were me, I would perhaps go with a Cello (it is a very good TT, make no mistake about it) and invest the money saved towards acquiring a pair of speakers that match well with your Leben. As you are aware now, your speakers are not the best match for the Leben (I said this when you were in the process of buying them) and you are not getting what the little Leben is capable of producing (which is about 90% of the very best at a tiny fraction of the cost, but only if you pair it well). In my opinion, this way you shall get better overall sonics from your whole system. Please forgive me for my naive view perhaps.

Regards.

Yes Asit, your advise is well thought, no doubt. My search for a matching pair of speaker for Leben is still on. Recently, I listened Harbeth Compact 7 with Leben cs300xs. It's a 18" tall bookshelf with front port. To be honest, Harbeth compact 7 requires more power than my 15 watt amp. But the Bass tightness and lustrous sound at lower to medium volume level was enjoying, specially after letting about 45 mins of play to really warm-up the Leben amp. Of-course, the above audition could not be taken with proper ideal placement of speaker and amp in stand and rack respectively.

My next plan is to listen Zu Audio speakers with Leben. Luckily, there is an Indian distributor now. As you know, Zu Audio speakers are high sensitivity speakers so drivability would not be an issue. But all the Zu speakers have 10" Full range driver along with a super tweeter. I don't know how the 10" driver will sound in my smallish room. I am fearing the speaker may be overkill for my room size.

Another plan is to listen to Diapason Adamante MKIII bookshelf. These are Italian make and claimed to be a good speaker with 89 db sensitivity. Recently a 6moons review of this speaker has been publshed. The dealer is in Mumbai.

Another extreme possibility I was thinking - to change Leben amp with Kismet Extreme Power amp + a passive pre as Pratim have. The sound signature of this power amp to some extent matches with Leben and I will not loose much, but will have much better drivability.

As I would require a phonostage, Sridhar suggested, why not to go for Symphonic Line integrated amp with in-built phono.

Still the thinking is on..

 

[reignofchaos]

Yup the Symphonic Line RG14 Edition would go rather well. It has an excellent MC/MM phono stage as well.

 

[Dr.Bass]

What is your budget for the speaker upgrade Amit ?

 

[himadri]

Another extreme possibility I was thinking - to change Leben amp with Kismet Extreme Power amp + a passive pre as Pratim have. The sound signature of this power amp to some extent matches with Leben and I will not loose much, but will have much better drivability.

As I would require a phonostage, Sridhar suggested, why not to go for Symphonic Line integrated amp with in-built phono.

Still the thinking is on..

Hi Amit
I have heard the Usher Mini dancer 1 with Odyssey , Usher , Symphonic line , Ayon (tube ), and of course my own Denon integrated amplifier. I have not heard the Tiny dancer or the Leben.
Considering that the Tiny dancer may have a similar sound signature as the Mini, I preferred the Mini with the an amplifier with a slightly softer approach towards the higher frequencies since the smaller dancers ( not the mini dancer 2 which I have heard extensively) are a little deficient in the lower mids at the expense of the upper/upper-mids . I liked them best with the Ayon and Symphonic line amps rather than the Usher and the Odyssey.I have a feeling that a tube based pre/with SS power (like ROC's) or a full tube like Myriad's Ayon match very well with the smaller dancers.Hence, apart from drivability issues, you may not find a better tonal match than the Leben for the Tiny.
The Symphonic line of course sounded far better than than any of the SS amps that I auditioned with the mini dancer1.
My personal opinion only.
regards
himadri

 

[Asit]

Amit,
I am sorry that I am getting all these ideas into your head. Do not worry too much if you are reasonably happy with the present combo. That was just my opinion. I am happy that you are looking at your system as a whole and not component-wise. Which Zu are you looking at?

Himadri,
You probably did not hear the Odyssey Kismet. Pratim has one which is specced very highly (even better than the Kismet monos that was reviewed by 6moons). So I would call it Kismet Extreme plus or something like that. Any way I heard this with my speakers, and I still cannot forget the sound. In fact, I am ready to rate it significantly higher than some of the amps I have heard in the last few years costing a few times that of the Kismet.

Regards.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

The tonality of Leben is of course something, one can not leave with. I have listened Symphonic Line RG10 with Tiny Dancer. It was marvelous. But still in vocal I will rate my Leben ahead of Symphonic Line RG10.

My Leben + Tiny Dancer combination is decent for low to medium level of listening (generally I listen at this level) other than its slight looseness in Bass frequency. But Tiny Dancer has magical tweeter and it sets well with my room size. It is difficult to get high sensitivity 2 way bookshelf speakers in India. My budget for the speaker is not very specific, but it may be considered around 2L.

Let me come to Turn table now. Soon I may get offer for an used Thorens TD150. I have to check the conditions. How would be Thorens TD 150 to add to my chain of equipments?

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Amit,
I am sorry that I am getting all these ideas into your head. Do not worry too much if you are reasonably happy with the present combo. That was just my opinion. I am happy that you are looking at your system as a whole and not component-wise. Which Zu are you looking at?

I think Zu bookshelf Omen speaker may be a probabiliy. But I have to listen first. The Delhi distributor have the Omen floorstander and Super Soul fly FS also in stock. So audition of these also on the cards. Althugh, I doubt that I will be able to take the Floor stander in my small room (total area 260 sq ft = 14.5 ft x 11 ft + 10 ft x 11 ft in L shape).

 

[Dr.Bass]

Amit, Jochen is selling the Blumenhofer Genuin FS5 bookshelf for 100k, an absolute steal for the price IMO and better than, well...

Secondly, I have heard the Zu here with very good electronics. I found it colored and bloated, really nothing special about them if you ask me.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Let me come to Turn table now. Soon I may get offer for an used Thorens TD150. I have to check the conditions. How would be Thorens TD 150 to add to my chain of equipments?

The TD150 is a good TT. It will go well with the rest of your system.

If you tweek it (better plinth,springs,tonearm etc) it will run with the best suspended TT's out there.

TD150_Dept

This is a very good TT.

http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/23493-michell-gyro-se-tt-denon-dl-160-mcc.html

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Dr.Bass]

Let me come to Turn table now. Soon I may get offer for an used Thorens TD150. I have to check the conditions. How would be Thorens TD 150 to add to my chain of equipments?

To add some more points:
I think it is important for you to understand that there are two major categories of TT sound, Vintage and Modern. Typical vintage sound is laidback, warm, a bit cloudy, mushy, rounded but still very musical (to my ears). Modern sound is a little more like CD, lots of detail, resolution, dynamics, extension, focus, clarity and most importantly transparency. Getting them to sound warm, lush, natural, fluid etc takes a lot of careful matching. Some TTs get the best of both worlds and some get the worst of both, but lets not get into that.

Vintage TTs will mostly have a large part of the vintage sound. Do you want it? You need to answer it before even looking at the Thorens and Garrards. Okay you can tweak them to get higher resolution but that should not be your approach at such an early stage into analogue IMO. You should be looking at as much plug n play possible. But if you have heard vintage TTs and like them and want to start there, then definitely explore them. In fact if you like them then focus mostly on them. Modern TTs which can give you the romance of vintage and still sound adequately neutral are hard to find and expensive !!
You will have to go around listening to a lot of stuff to identify the TT which has the balance you are looking for, not an easy job really staying at any part of the world, you are in India

My suggestion, if you want to spin a lot of oldies (classics), classic rock, pop, country, which are usually not very well recorded then you will be very happy with a good vintage TT. But if you want to do Jazz, Western classical, Blues, vocals, well recorded rock then you need a good modern TT. The second variety of music has lots of well recorded and well pressed LPs available in the market today (brand new) and these LPs have tremendous resolution, matching any digital hi-rez format you can name. Interestingly you get lot more of your favourite music available on high quality LPs than what is available on hi-rez digital today so you will always see yourself buying and spinning LPs of your favourite music. And you dont want to lose the resolution if it is on the LP.

Dont confuse between these two totally different worlds of LP playback, please. You see, a wrong start into TT can permanently derail you from analogue playback.

My personal favourite among all the Vintage TT brands is Thorens and one point I was extremely close to buying one but I realized that if I buy it I will still go around looking for a high resolution modern TT, what is the point ? As soon as I realized that I totally stopped looking at any vintage TT, no matter how good the deal is.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Got offer for a Michell GyroDec SE TT from one HFV member from Chennai. A beautifully engineered good looking TT. May I request any Chennai TT proficient member to do an auditioning of the TT? The owner himself suggested it.