30 watt is not medium power sir......its pure class A....it can drive most difficult load out there....on this earth...its pure quality over quantity..........
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30 watt is not medium power sir......its pure class A....it can drive most difficult load out there....on this earth...its pure quality over quantity..........
Her Master's Voice
New Member
On my last visit to The Listening Room last December, Jochen told me that a customer who owns a Leben CS-300 (12 watts) has purchased the Big Fun 17 speakers and in the customer's room of approx. 600 cu ft. this amp can drive these Blumenhofer speakers with ease, even putting out a punchy bass. But in Jochen's huge room of approx. 4000 cu ft the same amp just was not able to drive these speakers. It sounded flat and lifeless. So not only the power of the amp and the sensitivity of the speakers are important but also the volume of the room. In other words how much air has to be moved.
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soundbuff
Active Member
Viren,
That was 'naughty'
. The Leben drives the Big Fun 17 perfectly well, and plenty loud! Its just incurable greed ....and lust!
SETS sound fabulous, but are fussy and hot. So also while 30 watts is not 'medium power' in SET land, it does restrict further evolution in a particular direction.
What I am interested in is how to take my set up ahead in getting better information retrieval and presence at low listening levels and ability to play louder without stress or hurting. On my present set up (Ayon cd 1sc/ Leben 300xs/ Blumenhofer Big fun 17) the comfortable listening range in a medium sized room lies between 8.00 clock and 11.00 clock setting.
While I am sure there are fantastic SS/hybrid/and SET amps available, what I would like to zero in on is a choice of medium powered push pull (60 to 80 Watts), as a compromise between sound quality, power and convenience, and of course availability in India at a reasonable cost.
Thanks for all the suggestions
That was 'naughty'
. The Leben drives the Big Fun 17 perfectly well, and plenty loud! Its just incurable greed ....and lust!SETS sound fabulous, but are fussy and hot. So also while 30 watts is not 'medium power' in SET land, it does restrict further evolution in a particular direction.
What I am interested in is how to take my set up ahead in getting better information retrieval and presence at low listening levels and ability to play louder without stress or hurting. On my present set up (Ayon cd 1sc/ Leben 300xs/ Blumenhofer Big fun 17) the comfortable listening range in a medium sized room lies between 8.00 clock and 11.00 clock setting.
While I am sure there are fantastic SS/hybrid/and SET amps available, what I would like to zero in on is a choice of medium powered push pull (60 to 80 Watts), as a compromise between sound quality, power and convenience, and of course availability in India at a reasonable cost.
Thanks for all the suggestions
Soundstage
Active Member
Sir,
I have found Prima Luna PPs to be quite likeable. Dont know if there is a dealer in India though.
Cheers
I have found Prima Luna PPs to be quite likeable. Dont know if there is a dealer in India though.
Cheers
soundbuff
Active Member
Yes indeed. Another is Rogue audio, with a lot of fans. I do not know of a dealer however.
I have seen Audio Research in one place in Indira Nagar Bangalore some four years ago, but it was all solid state. The prices were completely out of my league, so I never followed it up. The company makes an 'entry level' 60 watt tube amp, although never seen or heard it.
Six months ago I made a trip to Mysore to check out a speaker, and found that he was also the distributor for Xindak corporation. They make a pair of fifty watt mono-blocks. Runs in Class AB, using 6550 tubes. The dealer only had SS on him, but he can get them on order.
I have seen Audio Research in one place in Indira Nagar Bangalore some four years ago, but it was all solid state. The prices were completely out of my league, so I never followed it up. The company makes an 'entry level' 60 watt tube amp, although never seen or heard it.
Six months ago I made a trip to Mysore to check out a speaker, and found that he was also the distributor for Xindak corporation. They make a pair of fifty watt mono-blocks. Runs in Class AB, using 6550 tubes. The dealer only had SS on him, but he can get them on order.
Soundstage
Active Member
Rogue Audio has quite a fan following, as does Quicksilver. I have an ARC integrated developing 50 watts using 6550 tubes. ARC now uses KT 120s in place of the 6550s, which give some 65 watts. The Prima Luna I heard had EL 34s and I quite liked the sound.
Happy hunting!
Happy hunting!
For truly high-powered SET you need a crazy tube like 833s. But unfortunately most such amps are at the stratospheric end of the price band.
I second Prem's suggestion of the Canasya. I've never heard a bad sounding Canasya setup, and unlike many tube or tube hybrid amps, it actually sounds good even from a cold cold start.
I second Prem's suggestion of the Canasya. I've never heard a bad sounding Canasya setup, and unlike many tube or tube hybrid amps, it actually sounds good even from a cold cold start.
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soundbuff
Active Member
Soundstage,
You have an AR amp! Awesome!
You have an AR amp! Awesome!
Are you sure it is 4000 sq. ft. Unless he moved his demo room elsewhere, IIRC his demo room cannot be more than 500 odd sq. ft.
4000 sq. ft is pro audio territory IMHO.
Her Master's Voice
New Member
Sorry my mistake. I meant cubic foot. The volume of a listening room is important, not the area.
Thanks for the clarification. Edited your post accordingly.
CJ Classic 60 is an average amp IMO. I have heard it. The LP125Sa is a different story though.
Check out stuffs like Trafomatic Audio, VAC or BAT. They are far more accomplished sonically. Even a used McIntosh MC 275 (any of the recent versions) would be a nice buy.
An 845 or GM70 SET with around 30 watts per channel would be a better choice though. These big tubes have a lot more headroom than the smaller tubes (Kt88, EL34 types) and hence they scale more effortlessly. Since you are looking for generous power, I am all for big tube SETs if available in this price range.
Check out stuffs like Trafomatic Audio, VAC or BAT. They are far more accomplished sonically. Even a used McIntosh MC 275 (any of the recent versions) would be a nice buy.
An 845 or GM70 SET with around 30 watts per channel would be a better choice though. These big tubes have a lot more headroom than the smaller tubes (Kt88, EL34 types) and hence they scale more effortlessly. Since you are looking for generous power, I am all for big tube SETs if available in this price range.
heliumflight
Well-Known Member
I agree the bigger the transformer tells you a lot
soundbuff
Active Member
Dr. Bass,
Am I to understand that the classic 60 and 60 SE may not provide a worthwhile upgrade. My existing amp is actually pretty good in most respects, so an incremental upgrade may be a bit of a let down. Ultimately I guess I will need to hear and decide for myself.
It does also seem that there are a somewhat more SET options in contrast to PP offerings in the market. This is a little puzzling?
Am I to understand that the classic 60 and 60 SE may not provide a worthwhile upgrade. My existing amp is actually pretty good in most respects, so an incremental upgrade may be a bit of a let down. Ultimately I guess I will need to hear and decide for myself.
It does also seem that there are a somewhat more SET options in contrast to PP offerings in the market. This is a little puzzling?
Soundstage
Active Member
Thank you Sir, although it is a Vsi60 and not one of the reference ones.
Was just a whisker away from buying a VT 200, but the fact that it had 16 6550Cs acted as a deterrent as it would cost over 1000 USD every time to retube it.
The found the seduction of SET to be mesmerising. This article makes for an interesting read: http://www.decware.com/paper43.htm
soundbuff
Active Member
Hello Captain,
Thanks for the read. While I am largely sympathetic to it, I would say that although my heart lies with SET, its the head that says PP and more power.
I have not heard many SET amps, but then I have not heard very many PP's either. However I have lived with two small push-pull amps over a long term, so I am familiar with the kind: The SETs I have heard are, a 2A3 based Lyrita, which I actually liked a good deal. More recently a 6c33 Ayon spark, which was rich and textured , and I would have liked to listen longer if it had not broken down for some reason. I have also heard the LM audio 300B and 845 based amps, which however impressed me less than their excellent push-pull units. Honestly if I could hear a SET that sang with my speakers, and did not feel underpowered why would I not want to consider it? The parallel SETS and big super tubes however are out of my budget, and I would have to settle for something in the 10-20 watt range (300/6c33/845). Which is why I am trying to look for a more powerful long term option that I can live with.
I appreciate your thoughts ofcourse. Many thanks.
Thanks for the read. While I am largely sympathetic to it, I would say that although my heart lies with SET, its the head that says PP and more power.
I have not heard many SET amps, but then I have not heard very many PP's either. However I have lived with two small push-pull amps over a long term, so I am familiar with the kind: The SETs I have heard are, a 2A3 based Lyrita, which I actually liked a good deal. More recently a 6c33 Ayon spark, which was rich and textured , and I would have liked to listen longer if it had not broken down for some reason. I have also heard the LM audio 300B and 845 based amps, which however impressed me less than their excellent push-pull units. Honestly if I could hear a SET that sang with my speakers, and did not feel underpowered why would I not want to consider it? The parallel SETS and big super tubes however are out of my budget, and I would have to settle for something in the 10-20 watt range (300/6c33/845). Which is why I am trying to look for a more powerful long term option that I can live with.
I appreciate your thoughts ofcourse. Many thanks.
Are you ready to upgrade or repair or spend money on your next big tube amp on year after year ....in different ways....
Then leap...
SS can't beat a tube amplifier in similar price category due to its organic ,coloured sound....aka "Musical" !! According to most of us.
But look for some hybrid SS like Pathos or Rouge audio etc Class D+ Tube Pre...too..
Audition them.....do google you will find the dealer.....too ..please.
Completely my personal opinion.
My 2 cents
Regards
Then leap...
SS can't beat a tube amplifier in similar price category due to its organic ,coloured sound....aka "Musical" !! According to most of us.
But look for some hybrid SS like Pathos or Rouge audio etc Class D+ Tube Pre...too..
Audition them.....do google you will find the dealer.....too ..please.
Completely my personal opinion.
My 2 cents
Regards
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soundbuff
Active Member
Hi Folks,
Some backtracking.
My speakers seem to be breaking in now and I can see a firmness and solidity in the low frequency which was uncontrolled or boomy earlier. I have shifted the speakers a little closer to each other and am listening at low to medium levels of listening (between 8 and 10 O'clock setting on the volume control). Within this loudness range the sound is delicate, detailed and reasonably full bodied. If I push it to louder level it gets a bit aggressive and rough sounding.
More specifically, on jazz the double bass lines are fairly articulate and distinct. Strings and winds, are very open and natural, the piano has scale and presence. I have little to crib about. In classical symphonies there is some lumping together that is happening, like I cant make out the sections of the orchestra. However Piano has scale and good resonance, individual solo performers are quite easy to follow when they are playing their parts. The Leben has a very textured string tone, sort of SET like, but when the orchestra enters a climax it does get muddled and messy sounding. Its hard to put it in words, but its like there has been a loss of composure.
I am beginning to wonder if power is not perhaps the only reason for the systems limitations. It could be my budget quality cables and interconnects contributing their bit of coarsening. I am presently using basic Usher speaker cables and audio art interconnects. Let me work on it some more. I have also asked Mr. Murthy to make me a Wall mount for the turntable, and eventually I can get better than my DIY TNT shelf rack and sand box.
Just sharing my thoughts.
Some backtracking.
My speakers seem to be breaking in now and I can see a firmness and solidity in the low frequency which was uncontrolled or boomy earlier. I have shifted the speakers a little closer to each other and am listening at low to medium levels of listening (between 8 and 10 O'clock setting on the volume control). Within this loudness range the sound is delicate, detailed and reasonably full bodied. If I push it to louder level it gets a bit aggressive and rough sounding.
More specifically, on jazz the double bass lines are fairly articulate and distinct. Strings and winds, are very open and natural, the piano has scale and presence. I have little to crib about. In classical symphonies there is some lumping together that is happening, like I cant make out the sections of the orchestra. However Piano has scale and good resonance, individual solo performers are quite easy to follow when they are playing their parts. The Leben has a very textured string tone, sort of SET like, but when the orchestra enters a climax it does get muddled and messy sounding. Its hard to put it in words, but its like there has been a loss of composure.
I am beginning to wonder if power is not perhaps the only reason for the systems limitations. It could be my budget quality cables and interconnects contributing their bit of coarsening. I am presently using basic Usher speaker cables and audio art interconnects. Let me work on it some more. I have also asked Mr. Murthy to make me a Wall mount for the turntable, and eventually I can get better than my DIY TNT shelf rack and sand box.
Just sharing my thoughts.
M
mpw
Guest
soundbuff
please do put up a pic of your system..
eye candy will be nice
please do put up a pic of your system..
eye candy will be nice
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