You Favorite Stereo Amplifier

oh how i wish i had requested folks to add a picture of their set up..

bhagwan, your setup looks mesmerizing.. thank you for sharing it with us..

Dr. Bass, would you do the honors and lay out your cards :)

Sir,
Kindly request all participants to this thread to enlist their gear & answer all the 5 questions you have asked in the post # 1 !
That is what you wanted to know - I assume;;
 
There is already a thread Showcase your audio video where people have put up pictures of the gear they use. There is also a thread Showcase your turntable. This thread is pretty much duplicating those threads.
 
There is already a thread Showcase your audio video where people have put up pictures of the gear they use. There is also a thread Showcase your turntable. This thread is pretty much duplicating those threads.
Sorry, I did not know - hence I posted my replies to this thread - I apologise...

Is there also some thread that I may have missed where 1 can post what 1 desires but has not purchased for some reason [what ever reason] - cause that is the 5th question that Jenson has asked - if that [thread] is there too - please be so kind so as to direct me there - I will post my replies there - instead of here - thanks !
 
In other forums there is a separate section called Members Systems which is something we should also have here. All discussions regarding a members system can be on that like it is on other forums
 
Hi Bhagwan

I do not think there is a thread which discusses a component that is the best he or she has heard but did not purchase because of monetary considerations or for some other reason
 
There is already a thread Showcase your audio video where people have put up pictures of the gear they use. There is also a thread Showcase your turntable. This thread is pretty much duplicating those threads.

i tried using buzz words such as photo, picture on all open forum...cudnt locate the thread ur referring to...would you be so kind to provide the link...
 
First apologies to OP for OT.



I found the above post very interesting and honestly very confusing to me. I hope I am qualified to talk about at least the aspect of listening to music.

IMO, the above order is all wrong (may be I have misunderstood something). The first thing a musician or a deep music lover is looking for is the tonality. Musicians try to get a certain tonality of their voices and instruments through years of practice and experimentation. Ravishankar's sitar has a very different tonality from Vilayat Khan's. Abdul Karim Khan's voice sounded very different from Faiyaz Khan's. Tonality, IMO, is the most important thing in any music reproduction. If one gets it wrong, there is no point going any further. If a system makes Ali Akbar's sarod sound like a guitar, I would not be able to listen to it even for half a minute.

Next, comes dynamics, both macro and micro. Without dynamics, the music is devoid of emotions. Generally a system with great transparency/cleanliness (that is, high signal to noise ratio) will produce good levels of macro and microdynamics. The phrase "Black spaces" in the above quote probably refers to at least part of this. But it should be right after tonality in my list.

Then actually comes imaging (related to 'separation' as talked about in the quote) and soundstaging, but only after the above two. I like to know exactly where each musician is located. This gives a feeling of physical space to the recorded music being played. In a live unamplified music performance, this is already there. In a recorded music being played through a system, it is not easy to achieve. However, if achieved (both through proper recording and then playing it through a good system), this gives a sense of immediacy to the music. Soundstaging is a related concept, basically totality of the imaging of all the performers makes the soundstage.

Next, I look for openness of the sound. This is one feature usually not talked about, but I conceive it as follows. If a recorded music is being played from a system in a particular room, imagine a listener in the next room who is oblivious to the source of this music. Would the listener think it is reproduction of music, or would he think of it as a live performance. JA of Stereophile discussed this aspect some time ago, and it is a relevant point. No matter how expensive is the system, the listener in the next room would always be able to differentiate the difference between live unamplified music to the recorded and reproduced music. This is what I call lack of openness and naturalness in a system. It is there in all systems I have heard (and I have heard quite a few in my life so far, although I usually do not remember all the brands and models, because my focus usually always comes to the music). Although, never perfectly done, one should try to get this openness and naturalness in the system to best of one's abilities.

Last in my list would be SPL levels or loudness of sound. Of course one needs to have audible levels so that one can hear every nuances clearly. However, I like to mention one thing I find important in this. Every amp comes alive after a certain level of volume. To evaluate the amp, one of course should not listen to volumes lower than that.

Regards.

PS: BTW, for the only relevant part related to this thread, let me just mention that I like my current stereo integrated amp (Leben CS300) immensely, because for its price, it does a tremendous job in all the departments I have mentioned above. It is a very well-balanced amp. In fact, it is hard to find a serious weakness of this amp, if one has the speakers to pair with this tiny 12 wpc amp.

Nice post there Asit.
I agree with most part of your post but I would like to add one more parameter to it which I have come to value immensely off late, "PRAT", to be more precise "Timing". Right after "Tone" it is "Timing" that has become the most significant thing for me, "Dynamics" is now at third place:). It was never this way, or at least I never thought it would be this way till I heard Naim products. The way now music makes sense to me, even abstract music, off beat music, it never had. I have never enjoyed Hindustani so much, before I heard it on Naim. And I think Hindustani is one of the most difficult genre to get right. Yes, the dynamics are fantastic but it is the spot on timing that makes me now understand what an instrument is actually conveying within the mix. Even though it looks silly, almost every gear I hear now feels like it is altering/smearing the timing cues and I lose connection:sad:.

I think we all are more sensitive towards 1-2 fundamental aspects of music reproduction and that has to come through correctly in our setups to enjoy music. I know people who are totally into "Dynamics", macro, milli, micro..you name it. They do not worry a lot about the tone and timbre as long as it is not way off. Rather they even think if dynamics are correct everything else falls into place automatically:). So, it is like that, actually we need everything to be "good" to enjoy the music well, just that some aspects we simply work towards perfection and in the process if we attain near perfect results for some other aspects also, music is heavenly !!
 
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Hi Dr Bass


My understanding of this is because of the low damping factor of Naim amps. Almost all solid state amps have a very very high damping factor, in excess of probably 1000. Tube amps also have a very low damping factor but have problems like linearity, distortion, etc. Hence timing goes wrong many times. Most ss vintage amps will again get the timing right because of a low damping factor. First Watt amps again should have great timing.

Nobody actually discusses this in forums and to me this is a very critical factor for speaker amp interface. Wrong damping factor can suck the life out of a speaker with all wrong timing and tone.

Accuphase E202 is one of the very few amps which had a variable damping. You could choose a factor of 1, 5 or 50.

My hypothesis may be wrong because i have nothing to substantiate for it
 
Hi Prem,
I am not exactly sure how a high damping factor is achieved. While damping factor of 1000 is not really common, 200-500 is pretty common. I think damping factor has something to do with negative feedback, again not sure how. The thing with Naim is, each and every of its product has super timing, their CD players and Network Streamers as well. Pretty amazing !!
 
Yes Dr Bass, damping factor has to do with negative feedback. Lower the damping factor more natural the sound but less controlled. Even i do not understand much of this but i have generally preferred the sound of well designed amps with a lower damping factor
 
Most Nelson Pass products also have a low damping factor. He believes that the correct damping factor for a Lowther to sound correct is 8. Hence he designed the F3 amp for it with a df of 8.
 
Interestingly Naim sounds very controlled even with loads like ATC and still sounds very natural. But yes, they do not have any amps rated at 200 wpc and all. Most of their amps are like 50-70 watts. A lot of their game happens in the power supply.
 
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Hope low df amp needs high sensitive speakers vice versa. So only full naim setup is seducing. But if u want a good tight discreet quality bass i think we should go for high df with low sensitive speakers. For good natural highs and mids vice versa. This is my listening experience only not a technical. For me good matching systems with accessories according to ones taste is well and good. If you are only behind classic jazz blue melodies low df high sensitive speakers. Set amps in tube class a amp in ss with single drive speaker with out network with huge enclosure with good wave guiding technology with ample space will be good. For fast and multi instrumenta music i think one should definitely go for less sensitive speakers with high df amp. That is possible only in ss class ab only. Is my assumption is correct? Any how matching the systems with good accessories according to ones tastes is the must.
 
I read somewhere that Naim amps use Class B topology or something called optimally biased Class B which is below Class AB and very close to Class B operation. That could be the reason naim amps have smallest heat sinks of all and Naim is the only manufacturer who recommends leaving the amp switched-on for longer periods almost 24x7 unless going on a holiday to get optimal performance.

Not sure if its Class B topology that gives Naim the character but looks like if someone starts using Naim its very rare they switching to other amps.

One interesting thing is some one by name Teddy Pardo came up with power supplies which are said to improve on Naim designs and well received some Naim users:D
 
I read somewhere that Naim amps use Class B topology or something called optimally biased Class B which is below Class AB and very close to Class B operation. That could be the reason naim amps have smallest heat sinks of all and Naim is the only manufacturer who recommends leaving the amp switched-on for longer periods almost 24x7 unless going on a holiday to get optimal performance.

Not sure if its Class B topology that gives Naim the character but looks like if someone starts using Naim its very rare they switching to other amps.

One interesting thing is some one by name Teddy Pardo came up with power supplies which are said to improve on Naim designs and well received some Naim users:D

I dont know about Class B part, I will ask some Naimees here. Regarding keeping it switched on, yes it is true Naim suggests it strongly and so does many other manufacturers like Plinius, AMR and quite few more. I dont know what they do inside, but they seem to know some fundamentals of music reproduction very well. That is why even their cheapo $20 interconnect replaced my $500 interconnect. Even the audio rack they make which is called "Fraim" is preferred over biggies like Finite Element, HRS and TAOC. Think about it, they did not have a "rack" product for almost 30 years of their existence, in 2005-06 they were provoked with this idea by some close circle Naimees and after 2 years they launched Fraim which beats most major brands selling rack, especially when it comes to be used with Naim equipments. I have heard the Fraim and it is crazy good !!

Regarding the Teddy power supply, there are other manufacturers also like Avondale who do a lot more than Teddy. However an hardcore Naimee will tell you that unless you want to drift in a particular direction, a Naim power supply is the way to go. It guarantees a clear upgrade but it is expensive compared to other players.
 
As they say once a Naimee, always a Naimee. There are certain brands which have a cult following and i consider Naim as one of them. Surprisingly quite a few of these are from UK. Quad, Lowther, Linn, ATC.
 
As they say once a Naimee, always a Naimee. There are certain brands which have a cult following and i consider Naim as one of them. Surprisingly quite a few of these are from UK. Quad, Lowther, Linn, ATC.

I noticed that too. We also have Harbeth :)

Interestingly, when I tried bringing up the topic of Pass Labs in the UK forums the response was pretty cold. I have myself never heard a proper Pass Labs setup but I at least expected some stirring discussion the way it happens in Audiogon but surprisingly it was like, huh yea okay !!
 
Yes i missed Harbeth. I think there is also a huge following for the BBC speaker sound. Guess Harbeth, Spendour all probably fall in that category.

What you mentioned about Pass Labs discussion in UK forum is very interesting. I have always seen that people strongly support their own countrys products. In US forums you will not have much discussion on Naim. There it will be Mcintosh or AR or the like. On a German forum you will find people staunchly supporting the German products. On iNdian forums we seldom discuss Indian products in detail or staunchly defend them. The fact is that Bhagwan after hearing so many amps and owning quite a few high end ones finally ended up with the Canasyas. No one discusses the high end speakers of Audire. I am sure they would be excellent. Rethm products too are seldom considered. I feel if we on our forums do not promote Indian products, who will?
 
Purchase the Audiolab 6000A Integrated Amplifier at a special offer price.
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