BS vs FS

[Vishal]

Highly recommend you listen to the PSBs as well.
PSB dealer is Lakozy (Chowpatty) where you can get an audition as well.

Thanks Nikhil - Lakozy is very convenient. I work minutes from there. Which PSB's would you suggest?

 

[Vishal]

in my opinion get a pair of wharfedale diamond 10.1 and throw in a sub later probably from wharf's stable eg-sw 150..to my ears i get an crispy pristine spacious presentation..probably my source is an 5star rated budget one!.my setup=marantz pm5003+cd 6004+wharf dia 10.1+wharf sw150(though i use it very rarely!)

I will prolly have an avr (denon1912/marantz/or similar) + Monitor + Sub (later).

I agree about trusting to one's own ears but good to get good advice too. e.g. I had no clue about the monitors and feel that they might be the ideal choice. Auditions are great but its a controlled environment, the room size is diff, source is diff, choices are limited(at a store) and it can get confusing.

I have to thank George and everyone else for their insightful comments.

 

[utkarsh]

Thanks Nikhil - Lakozy is very convenient. I work minutes from there. Which PSB's would you suggest?

You can Audition

1. PSB Image B6 + Sub on AVR and 2.1 stereo amp.
2. PSB T5 and T6 on AVR and Stereo Amp.

As you have mentioned AVR like Denon1912 or Marantz be sure that they can drive PSB speakers.

 

[corElement]

The stand mounted monitor is bigger, is normally a 2 way and, well designed can easily rival a FS.

+1 from me as well

This is what my final realization was, and brought me back to stand mount monitors after trying out multiple floorstanders.

 

[utkarsh]

+1 from me as well

This is what my final realization was, and brought me back to stand mount monitors after trying out multiple floorstanders.

Can you elaborate on final realization. Can stand mount monitor deliver Thump in music.

 

[venkatcr]

Monitors and speakers are one and the same thing.
Its just marketing lingo in action.

I would call this gross generalization based on incomplete data. Look at the following features of a monitor:

• Monitors were originally made for studios
• Monitors are mostly near-field - you have sit at a distance of about 4 feet.
• Monitors are supposed to reproduce the sound without any coloration - they have flat phase and frequencies responses.
• Monitors are meant to handle high volume of unmixed inputs. An artist will use a monitor to hear a particular voice or an instrument without it being confused with other artists' rendering.
• Monitors generally have unbalanced XLR inputs.
• Many monitors are active, though passive montiors are there.
• Monitors are built to be used rough and for extended periods - sometimes 10 hours a day.

You cannot use a studio monitor at home. You will end up with ear fatigue.


Cheers

 

[blackscorpio]

I would call this gross generalization based on incomplete data. Look at the following features of a monitor:

• Monitors were originally made for studios
• Monitors are mostly near-field - you have sit at a distance of about 4 feet.
• Monitors are supposed to reproduce the sound without any coloration - they have flat phase and frequencies responses.
• Monitors are meant to handle high volume of unmixed inputs. An artist will use a monitor to hear a particular voice or an instrument without it being confused with other artists' rendering.
• Monitors generally have unbalanced XLR inputs.
• Many monitors are active, though passive montiors are there.
• Monitors are built to be used rough and for extended periods - sometimes 10 hours a day.

You cannot use a studio monitor at home. You will end up with ear fatigue.


Cheers

Monitors are built to be used rough and for extended periods - sometimes 10 hours a day

You cannot use a studio monitor at home. You will end up with ear fatigue.

I don't understand, how come if they were built for extended periods of use, why we end up with ear fatigue?

Either I am mixing up something or you are mixed up?

 

[venkatcr]

I don't understand, how come if they were built for extended periods of use, why we end up with ear fatigue?

Ear fatigue comes from the way the monitors or speakers reproduce sound. I had specifically mentioned monitors have a flat phase and frequencies response. If you listen to Lata screeching for two hours, believe me, you will run out of the room. In studios, they take this sound (delivered by the monitors without an change) and tone it down for you to listen to regularly. In addition, speakers made for home do their own coloration of music in such as way that high frequencies are toned down, and mixed judiciously with other frequencies. Have you heard the concept of bright and warm speakers? It is the way the speakers mix the frequencies that they get their name from.

Either I am mixing up something or you are mixed up?

I wonder what this is supposed to mean?

Cheers

 

[blackscorpio]

Ear fatigue comes from the way the monitors or speakers reproduce sound. I had specifically mentioned monitors have a flat phase and frequencies response. If you listen to Lata screeching for two hours, believe me, you will run out of the room. In studios, they take this sound (delivered by the monitors without an change) and tone it down for you to listen to regularly. In addition, speakers made for home do their own coloration of music in such as way that high frequencies are toned down, and mixed judiciously with other frequencies. Have you heard the concept of bright and warm speakers? It is the way the speakers mix the frequencies that they get their name from.



I wonder what this is supposed to mean?

Cheers

The statements you made contradict each other, if they were made for extended hours of play, why do we get ear fatigue?

I am very much new to this, I understand a little bit about the bright and warm speakers but I think my understanding is not enough.

 

[venkatcr]

The statements you made contradict each other, if they were made for extended hours of play, why do we get ear fatigue? I am very much new to this, I understand a little bit about the bright and warm speakers but I think my understanding is not enough.

You are getting confused between time and sound quality. You can listen to a well balanced sound for a few hours. You cannot listen to a plane engine for more than a few minutes. Try playing a tone that has above 10,000Hz. You will not be able to stand it for more than a few minutes.

Cheers

 

[blackscorpio]

You are getting confused between time and sound quality. You can listen to a well balanced sound for a few hours. You cannot listen to a plane engine for more than a few minutes. Try playing a tone that has above 10,000Hz. You will not be able to stand it for more than a few minutes.

Cheers

I am trying to understand but, again you are contradicting yourself, if the sound coming out cannot be heard for more than few minutes how can you say they are built for extended hours?

 

[venkatcr]

I am trying to understand but, again you are contradicting yourself, if the sound coming out cannot be heard for more than few minutes how can you say they are built for extended hours?

What has the construction methodology of a monitor got to do with the audible capabilities of a human being? A monitor is built tough as it is used for extended periods in a studio pumping huge amplified sound. In a studio, the monitor may also be connected and reconnected many times, moved from one place to another, connected to different amplifiers.

When I say a monitor is built to be used for extended hours, it is this. Not that a human being can sit in front of it for hours together. Even a editor can edit for a limited time only.

A car is built to be used for 100,000 KM. That does not mean you can drive 100,000 KM without getting tired.

Cheers

 

[blackscorpio]

What has the construction methodology of a monitor got to do with the audible capabilities of a human being? A monitor is built tough as it is used for extended periods in a studio pumping huge amplified sound. In a studio, the monitor may also be connected and reconnected many times, moved from one place to another, connected to different amplifiers.

When I say a monitor is ....
Cheers

Thank you, I got it. You mean to say they are well built and handle rough usage.

I am in market for a HT/Music system, in one of other forums, a guy suggested me a monitors but I am more inclined towards a FS. so, I am trying to gather all I could so that I can make a decision, but with what you said, I think I am decided. They are going to be FS.

Please help me here in my thread, if you wish.

 

[alpha1]

I would call this gross generalization based on incomplete data. Look at the following features of a monitor:

• Monitors were originally made for studios
• Monitors are mostly near-field - you have sit at a distance of about 4 feet.
• Monitors are supposed to reproduce the sound without any coloration - they have flat phase and frequencies responses.
• Monitors are meant to handle high volume of unmixed inputs. An artist will use a monitor to hear a particular voice or an instrument without it being confused with other artists' rendering.
• Monitors generally have unbalanced XLR inputs.
• Many monitors are active, though passive montiors are there.
• Monitors are built to be used rough and for extended periods - sometimes 10 hours a day.

You cannot use a studio monitor at home. You will end up with ear fatigue.


Cheers

Yo do realize that till 70s / 80s there was no real distinction between monitors and hi-fi speakers (Yams and JBLs). It just depended on who you are selling it to.

Its only later (during the golden age of mass marketing and commercialization) that manufacturers started coming out with distinct lines of "Studio monitors" and "hi-fi speakers".

Is there really any difference:
MONITORS versus HI-FI SPEAKERS
MONITORS versus HI-FI SPEAKERS

I agree that most "monitors" have XLR inputs, bass equalization controls, more heavy duty chassis. But this is done in order to make them more sell able and convenient, you can easily do without these and use your hi-fi speakers also to "monitor".

 

[GeorgeO]

I referred only to hifi/home monitors, in the context of stand mounted speakers Vs bookshelves -I used the word monitor maybe in the way it is used in general parlance. At no point was I referring to Studio monitors. Venkat's post I assume refers to studio monitors .

I dont agree with his reference about listening at 4ft distance ( unless they are studio monitors,I suppose-about which I have no experience), and I suspect he is right when he refers to listening for extended periods using studio monitors.I listen for extended periods using my stand mounted speakers with no problem.

I dont want to start a flame on this thread so this is my last post on this thread.

 

[avidyarthy]

In other words .....

"A Studio Monitor is used for elongated periods by professionals who are experts at manipulating / colouring the original sound track to make sure people like you and me can sit in front of the 'doctored' track for elongated periods, and not get ear fatigue".

The professionals who are the experts, need not be audiophiles themselves, but they definitely know what they are expected to do. THATS their job.

 

[doors666]

flat frequency response does not mean it will cause ear fatigue. where did you get that? Its usually the non flat speakers (depending upon the non linearity) that cause ear fatigue. A flat FR speaker cant be lousy, but a non flat one can be

 

[Vishal]

I would call this gross generalization based on incomplete data. Look at the following features of a monitor:

• Monitors were originally made for studios
• Monitors are mostly near-field - you have sit at a distance of about 4 feet.
• Monitors are supposed to reproduce the sound without any coloration - they have flat phase and frequencies responses.
• Monitors are meant to handle high volume of unmixed inputs. An artist will use a monitor to hear a particular voice or an instrument without it being confused with other artists' rendering.
• Monitors generally have unbalanced XLR inputs.
• Many monitors are active, though passive montiors are there.
• Monitors are built to be used rough and for extended periods - sometimes 10 hours a day.

You cannot use a studio monitor at home. You will end up with ear fatigue.

WHAT?? Are you suggesting that Monitors should not be used at home? All the OEM websites and their pictures have them placed in homes.

This is confusing ....

 

[venkatcr]

A studio monitor (as clarified by George) is meant for use in a studio. There are also some speakers available that can be used with a PC. You may call them monitors as they are near field speakers. You can certainly use them at home.

You can certainly use a studio monitor at home. Just get the right equipment and acoustics done. It is free world after all. I have even seen members here trying to fit a car speaker driver into a small cabinet for use at home. I have seen people use a 220V to 12V DC converter and use a car head unit as a receiver and CD player at home. There is nothing to stop you from innovation.

Cheers

 

[Vishal]

I referred only to hifi/home monitors, in the context of stand mounted speakers Vs bookshelves -I used the word monitor maybe in the way it is used in general parlance.

I dont want to start a flame on this thread so this is my last post on this thread.

@George: No flames but actually very insightful. Pls don't stop your posts. I think you and Venkat have provided great insight for newbees like me. So there are "home" Monitors which are between BS and FS and "studio" monitors which are to be used in a professional set up. Excellent clarty

The real question for a buyer like me is the following: How to identify the home monitor. The studio buyers are professional and know what they want. Specifically:

1. Can i depend on the marketing lingo on web sites which use the words bookshelves/monitors/studio monitors.
2. Are home monitors really BS with stands?
3. Are there other features that state if the product is a home monitor.
4. Are the PL100, Wharfedale 10.2, Paradigm Cinema 90 v3, PSB S2 etc home monitors?

Just making it easy for buyers to parse and identify the right products.

Terrific forum only coz of the terrific people in here.