A journey begins...

[jls001]

Then again perhaps not Joshua. Lots of carts have uneven outputs from both channels that will render the reading wrong. Lots of people online don't regard it as an accurate tool to measure balance.

Regards

A no-cost option suggested by Hiten is to use a computer sound card to record the output of the phono pre and check the levels of L and R. Of course this assumes that one has a PC with sound card and knows how to use it to record it. A second assumption is that the phono pre's L and R are equal or near equal.

But this still leaves the question of what one should do in case L and R are not equal. Azimuth alignment could be one option. If that works, everything is fine. If the cart is inherently unbalanced, then I guess the only solution is to change cart.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Guys, lots happening on this thread. There is no problem discussing the whole chain. I have my own comments on Leben which I will write. I am currently typing this from an internet parlour in kolkata. Once I reach home I will write more. Sorry Asit, I have just arrived Kol and my train to my home town is in another couple of hours so cannot meet up with you today . But we are meeting soon.

I was waiting for something interesting to happen to write more on this thread and so it did. Asit was kind enough to stop by at Singapore and visit over. Although we could meet only for few hours and it was some really nice time spent checking out "The Adelphi" and then listening to the Turnberry. I always knew my amp is the weakest link and Asit was quick to point it out with some nice examples of where the amp is exactly letting go. I wanted to get into the amp thing only after I settle the TT playback, but now I would like to pursue both these in parallel. The last time we discussed it here, there were suggestions to try the Leben and also Almarro (by Prem). The Leben is accessible in Singapore, I can only look for the CS300 within the budget. Generally I have always liked the Leben sound. I started a thread on the Pinkfishmedia forum regarding amps. There, some people asked me how could I have a shortlist where both Naim and Leben are strong candidates. IMO, both Naim and Leben have some very similar strengths, they both walk the same direction to a good extent after which Naim goes into "further" perfecting the pace and timing of the music where as Leben goes "deeper" into beautifying the tonal aspect, making things more 3 dimensional, palpable, all in an honest manner. Its no wonder that Leben doesnt disappoint in PRAT and Naim doesnt disappoint in tone. But then as one goes higher end in the Naim ladder there is a certain groove factor it brings to the music which is very addictive. The Leben takes over by presenting music in a rather full, 3 dimensional envelope with tones that are so adorable, every note of it. This is from my limited exposure to both these brands, I say limited because I havent heard them in my own system or systems that I know very well.

So, for about the same price that I pay for a used Leben CS300, I can buy a Naim 202/200 mid level pre-power combination (actually it will cost a little more) or an Audio Note OTO SE. Leben will be the cheapest option which makes things interesting.

 

[prem]

If you can audition, also try out a Redwine Signature 15. It might be an interesting option. Because its battery operated, it comes with its own set of strengths. It has a tube buffer stage. The 15 is a class AB. It also comes with a return policy.

 

[prem]

You could also look at a FirstWatt F3 with Lyrita DHT pre. Could work out very well with your Tannoys. Write to Nelson Pass. He is very upright and will tell you whether the combo will work.

There is also used Trafomatic Kaivalyas with a pre available at Definitive Audio Uk for about 3500 pounds. I was briefly considering this combo for my Rethms but guys at Definitive felt 25 watts was an overkill for Rethms and recommended the Trafomatic 2A3 or the 3000b amp for me. Infact the owner of Trafomatic Audio uses the Rethm Saadhanas for his personal listening with his 2A3 integrated

 

[prem]

Hi Dr.Bass

None of us on this forum barring one or two members have heard as many systems as you have. Between the three amps that you have shortlisted, from your posts, the toss up seems to be between Leben and Naim. Correct me if i am wrong. I think your heart tells you to buy Leben and your mind Naim because it probably does a few hifi things better. Music is all about soul. I would suggest go with your heart. In the long run it will give you more enjoyment.

 

[arj]

I was waiting for something interesting to happen to write more on this thread and so it did. Asit was kind enough to stop by at Singapore and visit over. Although we could meet only for few hours and it was some really nice time spent checking out "The Adelphi" and then listening to the Turnberry. I always knew my amp is the weakest link and Asit was quick to point it out with some nice examples of where the amp is exactly letting go. I wanted to get into the amp thing only after I settle the TT playback, but now I would like to pursue both these in parallel. The last time we discussed it here, there were suggestions to try the Leben and also Almarro (by Prem). The Leben is accessible in Singapore, I can only look for the CS300 within the budget. Generally I have always liked the Leben sound. I started a thread on the Pinkfishmedia forum regarding amps. There, some people asked me how could I have a shortlist where both Naim and Leben are strong candidates. IMO, both Naim and Leben have some very similar strengths, they both walk the same direction to a good extent after which Naim goes into "further" perfecting the pace and timing of the music where as Leben goes "deeper" into beautifying the tonal aspect, making things more 3 dimensional, palpable, all in an honest manner. Its no wonder that Leben doesnt disappoint in PRAT and Naim doesnt disappoint in tone. But then as one goes higher end in the Naim ladder there is a certain groove factor it brings to the music which is very addictive. The Leben takes over by presenting music in a rather full, 3 dimensional envelope with tones that are so adorable, every note of it. This is from my limited exposure to both these brands, I say limited because I havent heard them in my own system or systems that I know very well.

So, for about the same price that I pay for a used Leben CS300, I can buy a Naim 202/200 mid level pre-power combination (actually it will cost a little more) or an Audio Note OTO SE. Leben will be the cheapest option which makes things interesting.

:clapping: Abhi, I love the way you write.. you have the makings of a reviewer in you (the honest /brutal /perceptive type). think about it..seriously

 

[heliumflight]

:clapping: Abhi, I love the way you write.. you have the makings of a reviewer in you (the honest /brutal /perceptive type). think about it..seriously

I've also noticed that Abhi uses "chosen word" to desribe and convey the feeling and emotions he has undergone.

helium
CA 640c V2 + Lyrita SET 2A3 + Vintage Akai Speaker SW-175 + Pure Silver cables = 'Music Nirvana'

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Dr.Bass

None of us on this forum barring one or two members have heard as many systems as you have. Between the three amps that you have shortlisted, from your posts, the toss up seems to be between Leben and Naim. Correct me if i am wrong. I think your heart tells you to buy Leben and your mind Naim because it probably does a few hifi things better. Music is all about soul. I would suggest go with your heart. In the long run it will give you more enjoyment.

Well Prem, you are right in some ways, I want to give Leben a try. I see that I can always go back to Naim if I missed it. It is very easy to sell a Leben or Naim here. Audio note came to my mind because I heard an Audio note SORO SE playing in a shop the other day and it was VERY good. I am going to listen to Audio note amps one of these days at Audio note showroom. I am still looking for suggestions and opinions here because sometimes your mind requires just one cue to pull the trigger in favour of one of the shortlist. I know you guys much more than I know people on other forum so every word written here carries a lot more weight for me.

 

[Dr.Bass]

:clapping: Abhi, I love the way you write.. you have the makings of a reviewer in you (the honest /brutal /perceptive type). think about it..seriously

e-leg pulling hyeah:

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass

My experience with tube amps is limited but i realised what works with solid state amps does not seem to work with tube amps especially in areas of cabling and resonance control. With tube amps you need to work on getting the speed and dynamics. You need to liberate the sound rather than control it. Minimal or no damping seems to work better.

 

[jls001]

Have you decided on the cart?

Me I'm still tearing my hair out trying to decide which cart to buy

 

[arj]

e-leg pulling hyeah:

I am dead serious.
On separate note..the Audio notes somehow sound best with Audionote speakers. Again the OTO is very good. built with good components and proven design..but i am not sure the house sound is what you may look for (considering your preference for Naim/Leben)

From what i can extrapolate,, the Naims higher power may just work better with the tannoys than the CX300..it would of course depend on your room size

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Hi Dr.Bass

None of us on this forum barring one or two members have heard as many systems as you have. Between the three amps that you have shortlisted, from your posts, the toss up seems to be between Leben and Naim. Correct me if i am wrong. I think your heart tells you to buy Leben and your mind Naim because it probably does a few hifi things better. Music is all about soul. I would suggest go with your heart. In the long run it will give you more enjoyment.

I agree with Prem .

Back when I using my Tannoy IIILZ 10 inch Monitor Golds(the granddaddy of the Turnberry) I found that the Leak TL12+ monoblocks worked very well with them. Tannoys and EL84 tubes sound great.

Another tube that sounds great with the Tannoys is the EL34.Try to listen to the Tannoys with some EL34 based tube amps.

Though the Tannoys are quite efficient in my experience they require a bit more power at the least 10 watts.

BTW EvaAnna Manley uses Tannoys and her amps are voiced using Tannoys. You could look at getting a Manley amp. Manley Stingray?

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Dr Bass

My experience with tube amps is limited but i realised what works with solid state amps does not seem to work with tube amps especially in areas of cabling and resonance control. With tube amps you need to work on getting the speed and dynamics. You need to liberate the sound rather than control it. Minimal or no damping seems to work better.

Thanks for the tip Prem. I normally believe in having cables which do not restrict bandwidth but then my reference systems have always been SS. These days I am a big fan of Mogami interconnects. By resonance control if you mean isolation platforms, yes you are right, tube amps/preamps really have a different requirement compared to SS.

BTW, I am also looking at two other SS brands, the 47 Labs Gaincard with Humpty power supply and ATC SIA-150. Trying to get an audition.

The Tannoys is peculiar in the fact that they sound good with both tube and SS amps, low and high powered. Is it peculiar or is it too normal, I am wondering. Ideally a 40+ watt tube amp would be great. On the other hand people on PFM forum have found Tannoys to sound super with just 8-10 watts with no constraints in dynamics. Weird !!

 

[Dr.Bass]

Have you decided on the cart?

Me I'm still tearing my hair out trying to decide which cart to buy

I have not decided but recently I tried a Lyra Delos. Superb detail, great dynamic range, good tone but in the end a typical modern hifi sound. Sold it !!
I prefer my ZYX any day to the Lyra. More natural, more fluid, lower noise floor.

 

[Dr.Bass]

BTW, these days I am enjoying a superb MM cartridge, the Empire EDR9 !!

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi,



I agree with Prem .

Back when I using my Tannoy IIILZ 10 inch Monitor Golds(the granddaddy of the Turnberry) I found that the Leak TL12+ monoblocks worked very well with them. Tannoys and EL84 tubes sound great.

Another tube that sounds great with the Tannoys is the EL34.Try to listen to the Tannoys with some EL34 based tube amps.

Though the Tannoys are quite efficient in my experience they require a bit more power at the least 10 watts.

BTW EvaAnna Manley uses Tannoys and her amps are voiced using Tannoys. You could look at getting a Manley amp. Manley Stingray?

Regards
Rajiv

Thank you Rajiv. Manley seems to be a nice option too. I will check it out.

BTW, all you tube guys, can you please write a few words on what is the typical characteristic sound of each of these tubes EL34, EL84, Kt88, Kt77, 6c33c, 845, GM70, please add more if you like.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I am dead serious.
On separate note..the Audio notes somehow sound best with Audionote speakers. Again the OTO is very good. built with good components and proven design..but i am not sure the house sound is what you may look for (considering your preference for Naim/Leben)

From what i can extrapolate,, the Naims higher power may just work better with the tannoys than the CX300..it would of course depend on your room size

I am trying to get an audition of Audio note OTO soon. I will write here after the audition.

 

[viren bakhshi]

Hi,

I also say that go with amps that "liberate" the music in your system. I bet that tube amps will do that better!

I have no experience with the Tannoy coaxials, so really don't know what they demand of the amplifier. I have heard that they work better with higher powered amps, inspite of what their sensitivity specs say.

The thing going for you is that you have the big bass driver in your speakers, and you have the sensitivity. You will get the slam, along with delicacy, with the right amp. With tube amps, the traditional way to higher power is to go push pull. But you lose too much, in comparison to SET tube amps. That "liberation" is there in spades in the SET amps. Higher power - no option but the 845 or the GM70 tube. Try out one of these amps, and you'll be very surprised.

It's difficult pinpointing the sound of individual tubes, because they are just a part of an amp. The whole is much more important. Just like judging the sound of an amp in isolation of a system. Can't be done.

Ultimately, it's the sound you prefer. That preference is due to your musical sensibilities, your experiences as a listener. If you do want to get closer to the music, the pairing of a tube amp with your speakers could be one way.

Regards,
Viren

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass

Yes i meant isolation platforms when talking about resonance control. Do also try solid core cables.