square_wave
Well-Known Member
I must say this is the most well researched buy I have seen for a long time on any forum. The due diligence done by Asit is amazing 
Amp upgrade with Canton speakers: Feasibility study
- Thread starter Asit
- Start date
I really dont know about that. someone in the forum has heard even the 28W CS600 with the Dynaudio 1.3 and was very disappointed by the Bass...problem is people room/listening volume as well as genre are so different that it is very difficult to go by that.
but again for most fairly sensitive speaker in an average room upto 15W is more than enough
problem with the Dyns is that its impedance as well as phase variation below 40Hz makes it a very tough load..most tube amps are unable to give that power in that range.
so as long as your taste of music does not apply to that range you are ok.
similiarly the totem arros sensitivity is deceptive and is a much easier load that many 90dB speakers !
Same with the proacs..they can be driven well by 11Watts in spite of the 85db
the Sensitivity to power relation is not really very exact.
But dont want to go OT on the topic
soundsgreat
New Member
Hi,
Asit as said earlier for some very specific reasons I stayed away from posting ! but does not mean I haven't kept up with the thread ! I have been following the thread from the very beginning and have kept the track 
hyeah:! I did read the post that you mention and also the PDF table ! Am only too glad that it was some use to you !
I wanted you come and Audition my system when you were in Bangalore (thought you'd surely drop in for the Leben and also for Jaton opertta and Odyssey (Einstein,Startos etc) as it was also on the cards) but sadly that never happened 
!
Regards.
Asit as said earlier for some very specific reasons I stayed away from posting ! but does not mean I haven't kept up with the thread
! I have been following the thread from the very beginning and have kept the track hyeah:! I did read the post that you mention and also the PDF table ! Am only too glad that it was some use to you !I wanted you come and Audition my system when you were in Bangalore (thought you'd surely drop in for the Leben and also for Jaton opertta and Odyssey (Einstein,Startos etc) as it was also on the cards
) but sadly that never happened !Regards.
Square_wave,
The research was needed because of two reasons:
1) to enlighten me on the subject of amps and speakers a bit
2) since my speaker specs could not be verified, to find out what sort of speakers have been driven by the Leben CS300, especially because this was going to be a purchase without auditioning.
Arj,
I appreciate very much your point and also thank you for the cautionary remarks. This is especially important because nobody should get a wrong message, and that's why I have given the source link almost on each occasion for people to investigate further if they like to.
But basically and generally, my point was to find out if these amps need special speakers (like SETs usually do) with single drivers and really high sensitivity. I knew my speakers are not very difficult loads.
Also at the price point I was looking at, I knew more or less all the options (Stratos + Lyrita/Etesian pre, Operetta + Lyrita pre, Arcam FMJ A38 and the Leben) would generally satisfy me. The rest being all powerful definitely would drive my speakers. The doubt was on the Leben because it was a completely new territory for me, just 12 wpc tube, so had to know if they are known to drive normal speakers and the search on the net confirmed that they have driven many normal speakers. Obviously I was always taking a chance, but the chance factor was less because the predominant music I listen to is Indian music and the overwhelming bulk of that is Indian classical music. If my preference was more on Western classical, or rock or a variety of some ensemble music, there would have been more of a chance. I mostly had to make sure the midrange was good and the extremes were reasonable with a decent headroom. Actually for me (that is, for the music I listen to mostly) the microdynamics is more important than the macrodynamics.
Sridhar,
Since there are only about 7 Leben owners, we do not have to know the names, but can you kindly enlist the Leben models with the speakers used in each case, if you know and remember?
The research was needed because of two reasons:
1) to enlighten me on the subject of amps and speakers a bit
2) since my speaker specs could not be verified, to find out what sort of speakers have been driven by the Leben CS300, especially because this was going to be a purchase without auditioning.
Arj,
I appreciate very much your point and also thank you for the cautionary remarks. This is especially important because nobody should get a wrong message, and that's why I have given the source link almost on each occasion for people to investigate further if they like to.
But basically and generally, my point was to find out if these amps need special speakers (like SETs usually do) with single drivers and really high sensitivity. I knew my speakers are not very difficult loads.
Also at the price point I was looking at, I knew more or less all the options (Stratos + Lyrita/Etesian pre, Operetta + Lyrita pre, Arcam FMJ A38 and the Leben) would generally satisfy me. The rest being all powerful definitely would drive my speakers. The doubt was on the Leben because it was a completely new territory for me, just 12 wpc tube, so had to know if they are known to drive normal speakers and the search on the net confirmed that they have driven many normal speakers. Obviously I was always taking a chance, but the chance factor was less because the predominant music I listen to is Indian music and the overwhelming bulk of that is Indian classical music. If my preference was more on Western classical, or rock or a variety of some ensemble music, there would have been more of a chance. I mostly had to make sure the midrange was good and the extremes were reasonable with a decent headroom. Actually for me (that is, for the music I listen to mostly) the microdynamics is more important than the macrodynamics.
Sridhar,
Since there are only about 7 Leben owners, we do not have to know the names, but can you kindly enlist the Leben models with the speakers used in each case, if you know and remember?
Hi Soundsgreat,
That pdf file (the Table) was created at 1:30 AM. Although the numbers are correct, there are many typos in the text part of the table, but I guess people still would be able to understand. I was planning to correct those typos, but never got around doing it. Sorry.
Thanks for your offer of checking out all your DIY projects. Unfortunately, as I have mentioned in this thread somewhere, in the last 28 years, I have been to Bangalore only twice. So chances of me being in Bangalore in a hurry is pretty slim :sad:.
That pdf file (the Table) was created at 1:30 AM. Although the numbers are correct, there are many typos in the text part of the table, but I guess people still would be able to understand. I was planning to correct those typos, but never got around doing it. Sorry.
Thanks for your offer of checking out all your DIY projects. Unfortunately, as I have mentioned in this thread somewhere, in the last 28 years, I have been to Bangalore only twice. So chances of me being in Bangalore in a hurry is pretty slim :sad:.
soundsgreat
New Member
Hi,
You are most welcome anytime !! but I kinda figured that out myself thats why I also said its sad that you didn't ! I mean if you have bought the product without coming here then rest is understood ! But should you ever come the Invitation is always open 
!
Regards.
You are most welcome anytime !! but I kinda figured that out myself thats why I also said its sad that you didn't ! I mean if you have bought the product without coming here then rest is understood
! But should you ever come the Invitation is always open !Regards.
I really dont know about that. someone in the forum has heard even the 28W CS600 with the Dynaudio 1.3 and was very disappointed by the Bass...problem is people room/listening volume as well as genre are so different that it is very difficult to go by that.
but again for most fairly sensitive speaker in an average room upto 15W is more than enough
problem with the Dyns is that its impedance as well as phase variation below 40Hz makes it a very tough load..most tube amps are unable to give that power in that range.
so as long as your taste of music does not apply to that range you are ok.
similiarly the totem arros sensitivity is deceptive and is a much easier load that many 90dB speakers !
Same with the proacs..they can be driven well by 11Watts in spite of the 85db
the Sensitivity to power relation is not really very exact.
But dont want to go OT on the topic
Hi Arj
If this is the same person/setup over near CV Raman Nagar, then I didnt get this impression - I was there when we tried it. I agree that compared to the solid state that was there the impact of the bass/beat wasnt as forceful - to me its a bit like a Synth/electronic drum vs a jazz drum which tends to sound a bit rounded off. All things considered IMO the difference was small enough that I personally could have lived with it - just a matter of preference.
With regards to sensitivity - thats only once piece of the puzzle, you need efficiency as well. Its a bit like a vehicle gas spec -
1. Number of kms/litre is important as well as
2. Size of the gas tank
just saying that the car can go 500 kms does not give me an idea about efficiency, it could be 50km/lt or 5km/lt and herein lies the problem. The sensitivity that speaker manufacturers spec nowadays is not at 1W consumption anymore, not unless they specifically mention it. So a figure out 90dB is meaningless unless its a 2.83V at 8 ohms (which translates to 1W). If its lower impedance the power draw has already changed.
cheers
Sridhar, I couldnt agree with you more on the above..
and Yes, it is the same person .
Hi myriad,
Thanks. Yah, I converted. But you know what, from whatever little I have heard tube amps, this one (the Leben cs300) is different from that. The sound is very clean, transparent and dynamic, and that way it is like SS amps. However, the tonality and microdynamics are its tube attributes and that way the combination is really ideal, I would say. The bass is surprisingly good and it is getting better (more well defined, that is, tighter) with time. I have heard it can be a bright at the top end with wrong combinations (cables, speakers and sources), but so far it's very very sobre and acceptable everywhere.I am an uneducated person in these matters. More experienced people would hopefully correct me, if I said something wrong.
Myriad, you have invited me twice, and I have not made it so far to your place. But let me also invite you to my place to hear the Leben and the rest of my rig once everything breaks in. I have a very modest home, but would love to hear your comments on my set-up.
Sridhar,
Thanks for putting up the combos.
Out of thread talk: sorry, but I mentioned this many times in this thread.
Everybody,
My wife and I were really very stressed for the last couple of days. This morning the CBSE XII Board results have come out, and our son has done really well, considering that he is a serious cricketer (has been in Bengal under-17 and 19) and was playing matches till mid-January. He got 94% overall (math-100, Phys-95, Chem-95). I am distributing imaginary sweets to all members of the forum. Please give your blessings to him so that he can be a good and complete human being in future. All the pleasure of getting the Leben would have vanished if he did poorly.
Thanks. Yah, I converted. But you know what, from whatever little I have heard tube amps, this one (the Leben cs300) is different from that. The sound is very clean, transparent and dynamic, and that way it is like SS amps. However, the tonality and microdynamics are its tube attributes and that way the combination is really ideal, I would say. The bass is surprisingly good and it is getting better (more well defined, that is, tighter) with time. I have heard it can be a bright at the top end with wrong combinations (cables, speakers and sources), but so far it's very very sobre and acceptable everywhere.I am an uneducated person in these matters. More experienced people would hopefully correct me, if I said something wrong.
Myriad, you have invited me twice, and I have not made it so far to your place. But let me also invite you to my place to hear the Leben and the rest of my rig once everything breaks in. I have a very modest home, but would love to hear your comments on my set-up.
Sridhar,
Thanks for putting up the combos.
Out of thread talk: sorry, but I mentioned this many times in this thread.
Everybody,
My wife and I were really very stressed for the last couple of days. This morning the CBSE XII Board results have come out, and our son has done really well, considering that he is a serious cricketer (has been in Bengal under-17 and 19) and was playing matches till mid-January. He got 94% overall (math-100, Phys-95, Chem-95). I am distributing imaginary sweets to all members of the forum. Please give your blessings to him so that he can be a good and complete human being in future. All the pleasure of getting the Leben would have vanished if he did poorly.
neo
Active Member
Congrats to you & your family on both the fronts :clapping:
Cheers
Cheers
moserw
New Member
Celebrations galore. Great performance on all fronts. Wish your son the very best and also congratulate him.
anm
Well-Known Member
soundsgreat
New Member
Hi,
Hearty congrats ! very glad to hear the news ! Hmm the sweet is tasting good (I recon it'd be pure Bengali Sweet ):licklips: !!
Regards.
Hearty congrats
! very glad to hear the news ! Hmm the sweet is tasting good (I recon it'd be pure Bengali Sweet ):licklips: !!Regards.
Thanks everybody for the overwhelming response both for the Leben and my son's performance. I had to mention the latter because that was one reason I could not go out of Kolkata for the last 2-3 months for auditioning and I have mentioned it many many times during the course of this thread. From his age of 6 till 16, I have brought him to some ground for physical training every day (mornings) of the week, be it rain, cold or whatever and we were really worried despite being quite good how well he would do with just about 6 weeks preparation and that's why my presence at home was important. So in a way the choice of the Leben without auditioning is related to him.
But I must apologise to the moderator for bringing this up and then came the overwhelming response from everybody. A sense of family, indeed! But although I believe in music in its most abstract from, that is just pure tones, we do the music in our lives and in a way it is connected to our lives. The leben is part of our lives and the music from it would not sound good otherwise.
Let's get back to amplifiers.
But I must apologise to the moderator for bringing this up and then came the overwhelming response from everybody. A sense of family, indeed! But although I believe in music in its most abstract from, that is just pure tones, we do the music in our lives and in a way it is connected to our lives. The leben is part of our lives and the music from it would not sound good otherwise.
Let's get back to amplifiers.
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