B&W 683 5.1 theatre vs CM9 theatre for 221 sq.ft. bedroom?

[Eddierockks]

Please find my reply in capitals against your replies, point wise:

1. 14 ga is good enough for the rears. Ok, noted.
2. I have heard the type 4 and it is a very good wire. I find it over priced and would prefer supra's sword or atlas's ascent at that price point. Navin that supra sword is as follows:

Sword 2 x 3 m with spade & banana connector
sword - loudspeaker cable
per set
77,000
sword 2 x 4 m with spade & banana connector
sword - loudspeaker cable
per set
94,000

these prices are from lakozy. Anyhow, i can't fit them in my budget at all :indifferent14:. Then i have these options:

Ply 2 x 3.4 mm2 loudspeaker cable per mtr 1,300

ply 2 x 3.4 mm2 s loudspeaker cable - screened per mtr 1,700

linc 2 x 2.5 mm2 s loudspeaker cable - screened per mtr 750

linc 2 x 4.0 mm2 s loudspeaker cable - screened per mtr 850

rondo 2 x 2.5 mm2 loudspeaker cable - (round/twisted) per mtr 650

rondo 4 x 2.5 mm2 loudspeaker cable - (round/twisted) per mtr 850

rondo 4 x 4.0 mm2 loudspeaker cable - (round/twisted) per mtr 1,250

classic mini 2 x 1.6 mm2 loudspeaker cable per mtr 250

classic 2 x 2.5 mm2 loudspeaker cable per mtr 500

classic 2 x 4.0 mm2 loudspeaker cable per mtr 600

classic 2 x 6.0 mm2 loudspeaker cable per mtr 800

quadrax 4 x 2.0 mm2 hi-end loudspeaker cable per mtr 4,000

please suggest me the best for my requirement. Then for the banana plugs and spades, the options from supra are:

loudspeaker connectors

combicon banana connector combicon connector pair 1,850

combicon spade connector combicon connector pair 1,850

combicon kit (4pcs of spade/banana each) combicon connector per kit 7,200

this guy ashish from lakozy delhi is very very nice to talk to, and very helpful as well. I feel i should buy from him and forget about the atlas, just to keep it simple and fast. I am planning to finalise them within 2 hours after your guys input, so please act quickly as it will enable me to finalise the amount, settle the payment and get it dispatched today itself (tomorrow is the holi holiday so i might get it on thursday if ordered today).

3. There are 2 ways to buy speaker cable. (a) by the 50 m spool which what i did for all the rear speakers and (b) by the meter + terminations which is what i did for the front and centre. In either case i was not charged a premium for the per meter purchased but was charged separately for the banana plug termination ( i used wire world terminators).

What are terminations / terminators ? For the rear surrounds, i checked that my room is 17 feet long x 13 feet wide. By making a guess, how much wire should i buy? My b&w dealers tells me it can be anywhere between 20-30 metres, but once bought, i am afraid the dealer won't take it back. So i have to purchase with caution keeping in ming their expensive prices. The wiring would be done all internally through a already laid out conduit. I am not sure but thinking that i might be good with just 20 metres. Please suggest.

I don't remember the prices i was charged but due to my age i am aware that i get discounts many others might not (silver hair has it's privileges). Besides many dealers are old friends of mine - a few i know since the 70s.

That's good for you, but for me, i look younger than my age, so everybody wants to take me for a ride thinking i'm a young 19-20 year old guy by the way, i'm not too old actually, just 25. :lol:

I have occasionally heard me referred to as " navin uncle" for example once when one dealer called another requesting some component i was looking for he said "boss, yeh navin uncle ke liye hain":lol:

 

[Eddierockks]

Update: I now have the price list of Van Den Hul as well as Supra. Keeping these wire prices in mind, they are so expensive and I don't even know which is the best bet for the money.

Going thru forums online, I found that outside India, most of the people prefer Emotiva cheaper wires and banana plugs and they are rather happy with it. I don't know if it makes sense to invest heavily in this department.

 

[alphacentury100]

Before finalising on Velodyme DD+ or any other sub, just look into avsforum for the Seaton Submersive sub. Then you will get an idea about how great this sub is compared to any B&M company sub.

 

[navin advani]

Eddie,

1. terminations can be either spade plug or banana plug. I prefer the later as it is easier for old men like me. You can get these from wireworld. I dont remember the exact price but it was like Rs. 100-200 each. I bought 70 I think.
http://www.wireworldcable.com/images/uploads/banana_plugs_2010.jpg
INDIA
Audio Excellence
B64 Orchid Towers Yamuna Nagar
Off Link Road Andheri (W)
Mumbai 400053
India
Tel: 91 22 65010877
Fax: 91 22 66925007
Cell: 9820186108
E-Mail: [email protected]

2. Come to think of it the 6 series of speaker cable from wireworld is also well regarded. I dont know the prices but you can email the link above. They have names like Eclipse, Solstice, Equinox etc...and come in 10/12 SWG.

I have used Supra's Ply 3.4 as well as Rondo (for the living room) and Atlas's Hyper Biwire, Hyper 3.0 (for the bedroom) and Equator for all the rears. i bought Equator in 50 m reels (i got 2 reels, but needed only 1 so I have kept the second reel for future use).

I dont know what to recommend because a lot depends on what you believe in. For me good cable was essential as I had no intention to change the cables for a long time. I think you will do well to use Atlas's Hyper range and Supra's Ply range for the front and center and Atla's Equator and Supra's Classic 2.5mm for this rears.

 

[Eddierockks]

I was going thru online youtube videos etc and managed to find 4 out of 4 videos checked, the people using Van Den Hul CS-122 Hybrid (12 AWG) cables for CM9's as well as CM C2. The pricelist says it's for 1,66,000 (100 mtrs.). Can anyone give me the details of VDH dealers in Delhi to recheck the price?

Much thanks.

UPDATE: I dug a little deeper in its reviews and found out that a lot of people don't like it at all. They rather call the brand as VAN DEN DULL. I'm not sure if most of this brands products are bad but I used to have high views about it. Since its unavailable locally and would take a week to arrive, I will look for other options.

 

[Eddierockks]

Navin, have you had any experience with QED cables, specifically Silver Anniversary XT and Silver Anniversary XT Biwire? Reason why I ask about it as my dealer only has these in stock. My wife is away at my in laws house and therefore I've friends coming over for night stay tomorrow. so I need this setup up and running and for that, installation has to be done tomorrow itself. At 630/m, and with several awards under its name, can I go wrong with it? I'm referring to the sound signature of it, warm or bright?

I can upgrade in the future as and when the need arises. This cable has 5 stars everywhere but I'm only concerned about the sound signature. How well will they gel with CM9's and CM Centre2?

Any input will be highly appreciated.

Eddie,

1. terminations can be either spade plug or banana plug. I prefer the later as it is easier for old men like me. You can get these from wireworld. I dont remember the exact price but it was like Rs. 100-200 each. I bought 70 I think.
http://www.wireworldcable.com/images/uploads/banana_plugs_2010.jpg
INDIA
Audio Excellence
B64 Orchid Towers Yamuna Nagar
Off Link Road Andheri (W)
Mumbai 400053
India
Tel: 91 22 65010877
Fax: 91 22 66925007
Cell: 9820186108
E-Mail: [email protected]

2. Come to think of it the 6 series of speaker cable from wireworld is also well regarded. I dont know the prices but you can email the link above. They have names like Eclipse, Solstice, Equinox etc...and come in 10/12 SWG.

I have used Supra's Ply 3.4 as well as Rondo (for the living room) and Atlas's Hyper Biwire, Hyper 3.0 (for the bedroom) and Equator for all the rears. i bought Equator in 50 m reels (i got 2 reels, but needed only 1 so I have kept the second reel for future use).

I dont know what to recommend because a lot depends on what you believe in. For me good cable was essential as I had no intention to change the cables for a long time. I think you will do well to use Atlas's Hyper range and Supra's Ply range for the front and center and Atla's Equator and Supra's Classic 2.5mm for this rears.

 

[Eddierockks]

For now, I am avoiding Wireworld cables and sticking to the ones you mentioned, Supra & Atlas. Where did you buy your Atlas cables? I checked on their website as well as their facebook page, they don't have an indian distributor!!

For Supra, I will have to buy it from Ashish @Lakozy and tell him to send the package to my delhi dealer so his engineer by hand could bring them in tomorrow.

For QED, my dealer has Silver Anniversary XT in stock which he says has won in-numerous awards and is an outstanding VFM product at 630Rs/m. (He emphasizes that QED is really really good!)

So what should I do, order QED from my own dealer or Supra from Ashish at Lakozy? Whatever I do, I have to do it rightaway so the stuff can reach me tomorrow positively for installation.

I like banana plugs more, as I think they'd be easier to use. Should I invest in expensive banana plugs from Supra for example at 1850Rs/pair?? Or normal 100-200 Rs ones would do the job Nicely?

Eddie,

1. terminations can be either spade plug or banana plug. I prefer the later as it is easier for old men like me. You can get these from wireworld. I dont remember the exact price but it was like Rs. 100-200 each. I bought 70 I think.
http://www.wireworldcable.com/images/uploads/banana_plugs_2010.jpg
INDIA
Audio Excellence
B64 Orchid Towers Yamuna Nagar
Off Link Road Andheri (W)
Mumbai 400053
India
Tel: 91 22 65010877
Fax: 91 22 66925007
Cell: 9820186108
E-Mail: [email protected]

2. Come to think of it the 6 series of speaker cable from wireworld is also well regarded. I dont know the prices but you can email the link above. They have names like Eclipse, Solstice, Equinox etc...and come in 10/12 SWG.

I have used Supra's Ply 3.4 as well as Rondo (for the living room) and Atlas's Hyper Biwire, Hyper 3.0 (for the bedroom) and Equator for all the rears. i bought Equator in 50 m reels (i got 2 reels, but needed only 1 so I have kept the second reel for future use).

I dont know what to recommend because a lot depends on what you believe in. For me good cable was essential as I had no intention to change the cables for a long time. I think you will do well to use Atlas's Hyper range and Supra's Ply range for the front and center and Atla's Equator and Supra's Classic 2.5mm for this rears.

 

[Eddierockks]

Just to update you guys, I have finalised the Audioquest Type 4 for the fronts, and G2 (I guess) for the rears. For the sub, I've ordered a Audioquest Sub X for 3.9k as the dealer agreed to loan me his B&W ASW610 sub till the time DD12+ comes in April. I would also check out the JL audio F212 as well as Seaton Submersive (though it seems like a tough job regarding its placement).

Hopefully I'll be able to have the installation done tomorrow

 

[alphacentury100]

Just to update you guys, I have finalised the Audioquest Type 4 for the fronts, and G2 (I guess) for the rears. For the sub, I've ordered a Audioquest Sub X for 3.9k as the dealer agreed to loan me his B&W ASW610 sub till the time DD12+ comes in April. I would also check out the JL audio F212 as well as Seaton Submersive (though it seems like a tough job regarding its placement).

Hopefully I'll be able to have the installation done tomorrow

If you think the Seaton Submersive will pose you a challenge in placing due to its opposite-side facing drivers then you can also look into the Seaton Submersive-F2 or the JTR Captivator-S or the Captivator-S2.
I would like to insist once again that: No other sub in the world can come close to the speed, accuracy, depth, musicality and loudness of these subs in their price range. period.
Velodyne and JL Audio make good subs, but you have to spend a lot more (twice) money to get the performance of the above mentioned subs.

Also refer this link "http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012"

If you still have doubts about the performance of this sub, they you better ask the Seaton Submersive owners about this sub performance compared to the Velo's and the JL's directly from this forum "http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/8010"

Anyway, at the end of the day, if you feel other wise, then you pursue what your heart desires. After all Good and bad is subjective in audio most of the times.

 

[vsg]

Hi Alpha/Eddie - sorry for posting this here, what is the price of SubMersive F2 in India?

 

[alphacentury100]

Hi Alpha/Eddie - sorry for posting this here, what is the price of SubMersive F2 in India?

Like I said previously, the Submersive is not available at any Indian retailer. They have to be imported directly from US. Mark Seaton, the owner of this ID company will provide you the quotes once you E-mail him.
The actual cost of the Submersive F2 (1000W) would be $2445, and if you apt for the used amp, which comes with 2 year warranty, the cost would be $2045.
If you wish to purchase this sub then email Mark and he will aid you through the procedure and shipping. The link to the cost sheet is here "http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Product-Listing-Availability-Status-and-Pricing-3366417".

 

[Eddierockks]

Update: I was able to successfully get the system up and running on Saturday. By the evening, I was exhausted as well as filled up to the brim with excitement. It took a lot of effort and the installation engineer Firdaus was a very very nice guy. He did not say no to anything, picking up stuff, arranging it up for me and even help me take care of the stuff that I had decided to pack up nicely to be used later. I am delighted. I am attaching a few pictures from starting to the end of the installation. These were taken from Galaxy Note 2 so not exactly clear.

Regarding packaging, I was not so pleased with B&W's style of packaging for it's CM Centre 2. The carton did not contain any thermocol or soft sponge type material on top portion of the speaker which really worried me a lot as the carton had suffered some damage during the transit. Thankfully, when they took it out of the box, it was perfect. I just love the hot glossy black looks of the speakers. Rest all of the other stuff was properly packaged including the Denon 4520. It is made in Japan and so my expectations were pretty high. They could have bettered the remote of it, but that could be just me. An AVR worth 2,40,000 Rs won't mind having a strong sturdy and beautiful remote IMO.

I have packed my Onkyo 3400, Logitech Z5500 5.1, iMac, Bose Companion 5, HTPC, PS3 80gb (jailbroken) & Xbox 360 for later use as the current cabinet did not have any space left in it.

Finally, the dream came true, it did take 6-7 years in the preparation of such budget but I am glad that I got what I wanted - Sonics, Brand, Aesthetic value, Beauty and Well Regarded Equipment. I have been advised that the burn in period of these speakers is 150 hours. What should I do about it? The engineer has advised me to play them at -40db (recommended) for 8-10 days. He has also fixed the overall volume to a maximum of 0.0db for now which he says can be played away with later on. After two days of random usage, I am not sure if it's only my ears, but I think the speakers opened up a bit than saturday. On sat, the speakers were struggling to sound loud and clear at -45db, today they were not, rather, I had to decrease the volume to -50db. How much performance boost should I expect after their burn in period is over? Is it just 10-20% or 40-50%? I just want a rough idea from you experts and accordingly, I will set my expectations because right now, all the savings have been spent on it and my expectation levels are pretty high. I don't even want any of my friends or family to see/hear it before they sound just good to my ears. Even at my home, my folks think i in favour of Bose. Even the speaker points were left according to V35 in my cabinet. And I totally forgot to mention, the engineer said that he has bi-amped the front towers by using Type 4 cable to connect high and low frequencies separately on the speaker by using two different channels from the AVR. He said one channel would power the highs and other the low's. Is that ok? I used to think that it is called biwiring (and still not sure :lol lol Lastly, I am getting a custom cabinet made for the equipment from my carpenter at home as the one that has been used right now, is too tight, congested and heats up my AVR drastically, which really worries me. When my sub comes later, I shall be able to use that cabinet instead for 3-4 months until my room final work starts again. Cheers to one and all for all the help, guidance, advise and sincere suggestions.

Delightful Regards.

Just to update you guys, I have finalised the Audioquest Type 4 for the fronts, and G2 (I guess) for the rears. For the sub, I've ordered a Audioquest Sub X for 3.9k as the dealer agreed to loan me his B&W ASW610 sub till the time DD12+ comes in April. I would also check out the JL audio F212 as well as Seaton Submersive (though it seems like a tough job regarding its placement).

Hopefully I'll be able to have the installation done tomorrow

 

[vsg]

Hey Eddie Congrats on your purchase ! The speakers really look nice.
But one piece of advice regarding bi-wiring the speakers. As you rightly mentioned it has been bi-wired not bi-amped cos as the name suggests you need two amps for that. But for bi-wiring also, make sure you have the connection right because the way you described it I am not sure it has been done correctly and my past experience suggests that speakers bi-wired incorrectly may rob 50% of the sonic abilities. It's very simple to do just look through any website for that but make sure you do it right. Anywys as you rightly mentioned most of these speakers need some breakin time so sound would surely improve over time.

 

[navin advani]

Eddie, with your speakers so close together you really did not need a centre. Phantom centre would have worked fine. A centre speaker becomes more useful when your left and right speakers are more than 1 meter from the TV.

 

[alphacentury100]

Congrats Eddie. They look wonderful. My best wishes.

 

[Staxxx]

The system looks excellent. Congrats. Personally I would not bother with bi-wiring. However, spend some time placing the sub in the right place and integrating it with the rest of the system. You will be surprised how difficult this can be.

 

[alphacentury100]

Some photos without the grills would be even better.

 

[Eddierockks]

Thanks vsg, I appreciate your compliment mate.

I am attaching a couple of pictures that I clicked this morning before leaving for work. I was in a rush so not sure if you can see them properly but then, you might get the idea of how my engineer has done it. Regarding Bi-amping, that's exactly what I told him but he was stuck on calling it Bi-amping and not Bi-wiring. Have a look at the picture and I hope to hear more from you, cheers.

Hey Eddie Congrats on your purchase ! The speakers really look nice.
But one piece of advice regarding bi-wiring the speakers. As you rightly mentioned it has been bi-wired not bi-amped cos as the name suggests you need two amps for that. But for bi-wiring also, make sure you have the connection right because the way you described it I am not sure it has been done correctly and my past experience suggests that speakers bi-wired incorrectly may rob 50% of the sonic abilities. It's very simple to do just look through any website for that but make sure you do it right. Anywys as you rightly mentioned most of these speakers need some breakin time so sound would surely improve over time.

 

[Eddierockks]

Eddie, with your speakers so close together you really did not need a centre. Phantom centre would have worked fine. A centre speaker becomes more useful when your left and right speakers are more than 1 meter from the TV.

This is the main problem now Navin. I have got this setup and have 2-3 months to work out the right placement and therefore get the perfect most apt tv wall made for my room. I know they are placed very close to eachother, roughly just 3 feet. I did it because it was looking neat at that time. But, I sure can play around with the placement which I purposely want to as well. I think I can get better imaging as well if I move the left tower to near the curtain and place the sub next to it. This means that I would have the left tower near the curtain, then the sub, then the av cabinet, and lastly, the right tower. Would it be ok? Because the centre is placed on the av cabinet and this has my concern as it will be then pretty close rather just next to the right tower but the left tower would be far off. Maybe it will look bad but currently, I can't really figure out how to sort this out. Your expert advice is very much needed here. Just for your information, like I mentioned before, the old white cabinet will be removed totally. I got a 3d made from my dealer which was not correct completely (simply because he had kept no space to place the left and front tower as well as the sub ) but would just give the rough idea. I am attaching it here as well for your reference. IDK how but my dealer has told me to have a fixed panel for pj screen. If I do that, where would my tv go?? :O BTW, some sizes might have a little difference in the following pictures, please avoid that. I want to add a projector plus screen later in this setup but the main problem is:

- I have a total of 13' wide front wall
- In the total 13', if I take out the door that leads to the dressing, I am left with 9'6"
- In these 9'6", I am not sure where to place the TV. Currently, I have it in the centre of the wall i.e. half of 13' at 6'6".
- If I move the left tower further to the left and move the sub in between the av cabinet and left tower, wouldn't it look odd? The centre pretty close rather next to the right tower but left tower, near the left wall of the room?

OR

- I should just take centre point of my 9'6" available wall width and place the TV at 4'9"?
- In this case I might not be left with any place to place the sub, but that can be worked out.

The best option would be when I will be able to use my existing 51" plasma and have a motorised screen mounted on the ceiling for occasional cinema experience. Thanks for your help.

Congrats Eddie. They look wonderful. My best wishes.

Thanks a lot mate, glad you liked my setup.

Some photos without the grills would be even better.

Yes, I know. Expect those pictures soon here after I am done moving them around for the best placement.

 

[Eddierockks]

The system looks excellent. Congrats. Personally I would not bother with bi-wiring. However, spend some time placing the sub in the right place and integrating it with the rest of the system. You will be surprised how difficult this can be.

Thanks a lot mate. It is still in it's temporary place as I strive to make it look great aesthetically as well but yes, that is gonna take some time for now. My installer has already bi-wired them and I don't plan to play with it till the time their break in period is over. Only then I guess I would be ready to make/hear differences with/without biwiring. Regarding sub, I am thinking of moving it to the left wall, like a couple of feet away from the av cabinet (length wise). Let's see how that goes, cheers