Buying Western Classical Music

ajay124 · May 26, 2011

Great maestro's of the 20th century
As a conductor, Pierre Boulez has few rivals when it comes to modern classical music. Boulez was born in France in 1925. He studied under Olivier Messiaen and Rene Leibowitz. In 1971 he took over from Leonard Bernstein, as the principal conductor of the New York Philharmonic. Around the same time he was also the principal conductor of the BBC Symphony Orchestra. His recordings with the Ensemble InterContemporarian are highly regarded. When it comes to interpretation of 20th century composers like Igor Stravinsky, Bela Bartok, Olivier Messiaen, Claude Debussy, Anton Webern, Arnold Schoenberg, Elliott Carter, Edgar Varese and Alban Berg, Boulez reigns supreme! Recently when I acquired the music of these composers, I did not even consider any other conductor. I simply punched in 'Pierre Boulez' into the Amazon search box, and proceeded to buy single cds and box sets of many recordings!

Essential Boulez recordings.

Boulez conducts Stravinsky: Pierre Boulez: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Bartok: Pierre Boulez: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Messiaen Edition: Dominique Kim, Jeanne Loriod, Alain Jacquet, Franois Dupin, Olivier Messiaen, Marcel Couraud, Marius Constant, Kent Nagano, Pierre Boulez, ORTF Philharmonic Orchestra, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, French National Orchestra, Doma
Verklarte Nacht: Schoenberg^Boulez^Ensemble Intercontemporain: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Moses & Aron: Schoenberg^Reich^Boulez^BBC: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Webern & Varese: Pierre Boulez Edition: Pierre Boulez: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Mahler & Wagner: Pierre Boulez Edition: Pierre Boulez: Amazon.co.uk: Music

These works are among the masterpieces of 20th century music. Bold, experimental, cutting edge. Venturing into terrains where western music has never aspired to go before. To appreciate these recordings, previous notions about what constitutes 'music' may have to be kept aside or perhaps abandoned !

YouTube - ‪Pierre Boulez conducts Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring (Part 1, b)‬&rlm;
YouTube - ‪Bartk: Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta / Boulez Berliner Philharmoniker‬&rlm;

Pierre Boulez is also one of the most important composers of modern classical music. His best known work is Le Marteau Sans Maitre (The Hammer Without A Master) and Pli Selon Pli ( Fold Upon Fold).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ2L9Of4gJY

ajay124 · May 29, 2011

stevieboy · May 29, 2011

ajay124 said:
Great Maestro's of the 20th century

Claudio Abbado is an Italian conductor,

Ajay,

I've never really understood what role the conductor plays in conducting an orchestra. Firstly, everyone knows what part they're supposed to play, when they're supposed to come in right? What does he do that makes a performance different from the same piece conducted by a different conductor? I understand a cellist or a pianist interpreting a piece differently, pausing here, stretching a note there, varying the rhythm here and there and so on. Does the conductor bring his vision and say ok lets play this passage by the cellists this way and that passage by the flautists that way? Does he gesture to a group of instruments to come in on cue and ensure they're not daydreaming in the orchestra? What is the scope of his conducting?

Regards

arnprasad · May 29, 2011

stevieboy said:
Ajay,

I've never really understood what role the conductor plays in conducting an orchestra. Firstly, everyone knows what part they're supposed to play, when they're supposed to come in right? What does he do that makes a performance different from the same piece conducted by a different conductor? I understand a cellist or a pianist interpreting a piece differently, pausing here, stretching a note there, varying the rhythm here and there and so on. Does the conductor bring his vision and say ok lets play this passage by the cellists this way and that passage by the flautists that way? Does he gesture to a group of instruments to come in on cue and ensure they're not daydreaming in the orchestra? What is the scope of his conducting?

Regards

From whatever little I know about conducting, the conductor spends a lot of time interpreting the composer's vision practising with the players before the final concert. Guess his waving of the wand is more to keep himself awake after all the hard work practising for many many weeks :clapping:

ajay124 · May 30, 2011

stevieboy

A standard orchestra has five sections, strings, woodwinds, brass, keyboard and percussion. The string section comprises of the first violins, the second violins, the violas, cellos and double bass. The principal violinist of the first violin leads this section. He is also known as the concertmaster, and is second only to the conductor. The woodwind section comprises of flutes, clarinets, oboes, bassoons, contra bassoons and piccolos. The principal oboe is the leader of this section. The brass section comprises of horns, trumpets, trombones and tuba. The principal trumpet is the leader of this section. The keyboard section has a piano and sometimes an organ. The percussion section in earlier times was a couple of timpani's, but in modern orchestras comprises of a bewildering variety of instruments like timpani, bass drum, snare drum, cymbals, tambourines, glockenspiel, xylophone and chimes.

Western classical music is played according to the fixed notations and instructions of the composer which are printed on sheets. The musicians not only have to play their part, but at the same time have to read the music, listen to the other sections, watch the conductor and time their entry and exit ! It is the job of the conductor to maintain time, and to ensure that every section is playing in unison.

Conductors spend a lifetime studying the scores and finding their personal interpretation of the composers work. A conductor's vision can change the sound and imagery of the work, by controlling the speed at which it is played, the volume at which it is played. Conductors can introduce different shades of drama, colour, passion and detachment to the works. Some conductors prefer to be neutral and stick to the score. Others 'colour' it, for the better or the worse.

A lot of work which 'principal' conductors do is off the podium. Deciding the size and composition of each section. Having a hand in selecting the musicians. Deciding the works which are going to be performed in a particular 'season'. Scheduling rehersals. Conveying their vision of the part to be played by each section and by the ensemble as a whole. 'Guest' conductors somtimes join an orchestra for a part of the season, or for a single performance.

A conductor is the 'face' of an orchestra. Someone, the audiences can focus on during a live performance. In our modern 'entertainment' seeking times, he has to be a bit of a showman. Younger, more immature and more enthusiastic audiences, may 'demand' that the conductor fulfills their private fantasies of what a conductor should do... Dramatic flourishes of the baton and hands, eyes closed in ecstasy, a handsome face conveying all the terror and beauty of a Beethoven or Mahler symphony, thundering drum rolls, soaring violins and flaring trumpets. To some extent the paying public 'conducts' the conductor!

stevieboy · May 30, 2011

arnprasad said:
From whatever little I know about conducting, the conductor spends a lot of time interpreting the composer's vision practising with the players before the final concert. Guess his waving of the wand is more to keep himself awake after all the hard work practising for many many weeks :clapping:

Hehe arnprasad, at that rate he's gonna poke someone's eye out soon with the baton going flying all over the place!

stevieboy · May 30, 2011

ajay124 said:
stevieboy

Conductors spend a lifetime studying the scores and finding their personal interpretation of the composers work. A conductor's vision can change the sound and imagery of the work, by controlling the speed at which it is played, the volume at which it is played. Conductors can introduce different shades of drama, colour, passion and detachment to the works. Some conductors prefer to be neutral and stick to the score. Others 'colour' it, for the better or the worse.

A lot of work which 'principal' conductors do is off the podium. Deciding the size and composition of each section. Having a hand in selecting the musicians. Deciding the works which are going to be performed in a particular 'season'. Scheduling rehersals. Conveying their vision of the part to be played by each section and by the ensemble as a whole. 'Guest' conductors somtimes join an orchestra for a part of the season, or for a single performance.

Thanks Ajay!

Very useful information in post, the above specifically answers my wonder at what conductors exactly brought to the table. As I clean LPs now I shall clean piece wise, with different conductors and listen for differences. Thanks a bunch for the useful info!!!

Regards

ajay124 · May 30, 2011

Conductor stories

In the 17th century Jean Baptiste Lully used to conduct by tapping on the floor with a staff. He accidentally poked his toe. The wound turned bad and proved fatal for him.

Valery Gergiev, currently the 'busiest' conductor in the world, sometimes conducts with a toothpick.

Conductor jokes

What is the difference between God and a conductor ? God does not have an identity problem.

A violinist arrives in heaven and asks another violinist, How is God as a conductor ? The other violinist replies that he is OK most of the time, but occasionally he thinks he is Von Karajan.

A musician calls the symphony office to talk to the conductor. "I'm sorry, he's' dead," comes the reply. The musician calls back several times more and gets the same reply from the receptionist. At last she asks him why he keeps calling. "I just want to keep on hearing the good news"

And the conductor who got electrocuted? He was a good conductor.

Why did they bury the conductor 20 feet under the ground ?
Because deep down he was a nice guy.

A terrorist organization took a conductor hostage, and threatened to release him, if their demands were not met.

What's the difference between an extra-large pizza and a classical composer?
The extra-large pizza is able to feed a family of four.

What is the difference between an insurance policy and a rock musician?
The policy will eventually mature.

Why did the rock star listening to his 'music' say when he ran out of dope
Gawd ! Whats that awful noise ?

ajay124 · May 31, 2011

Great Maestros of the 20th century

Bernard Haitink is a dutch conductor whose recordings with the Royal Concertgebouw, Amsterdam made on the Philips and Decca label are eagerly sought after. The Concertgebouw is, and has been for a long time, arguably the greatest orchestra in the world. With Haitink at the helm from the early sixties to the late eighties. He has also made many memorable recordings with the London Symphony Orchestra and the Dresden Staatskapelle, two of the premier orchestras of the world. In recent years he has also been the principal conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.

Links
Bernard Haitink
The passion and pain of Bernard Haitink | Music | The Guardian
Beethoven: Complete Symphonies: London Symphony Orchestra, Ludwig van Beethoven, Bernard Haitink, Karen Cargill, Lars Vogt, Twyla Robinson, John MacMaster, London Symphony Chorus: Amazon.co.uk: Music
The Art of Bernard Haitink - An 80th Birthday Celebration: Bernard Haitink: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Rachmaninov: Piano Concertos Nos.2 & 4: Vladimir Ashkenazy, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Shostakovich:Symphonies 5 & 9: Bernard Haitink, Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra, London Philharmonic Orchestra: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Mahler: Complete Symphonies: Gustav Mahler, Bernard Haitink, Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra, Netherlands Radio Chorus, Elly Ameling, Aafje Heynis, Maureen Forrester, Ileana Cotrubas: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Brahms: The Piano Concertos; 'Haydn' and 'Handel' Variations: Vladimir Ashkenazy, Wiener Philharmoniker, Bernard Haitink: Amazon.co.uk: Music

ajay124 · Jun 1, 2011

Great Maestros of the 20th century
Wilhelm Furtwangler is considered to be one of the greatest conductors of all times. He lived and worked in Germany through the war torn years 1920-1950. He conducted many performances with the Berlin Philharmonik and the Leipzig Gewnadhaus Orchestra. His recordings of the works of Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms and Wagner are considered among the best ever made.

Furtwangler believed in improvising rather than simply following the score or beating time. He did not give precise instructions or attempt to push the orchestra in a preconceived direction. He allowed the musicians and the audience to gradually discover the sonic and visual imagery of the music. He was a 'busy' conductor, very energetic on the podium, weaving 'images' and 'shapes' with his hands and body movements. He was more concerned with the continuity, feel, emotion and spirit of the work, rather than merely following the written notations.

Critics and fans refer to his music as having unbridled romanticism, emotions and creative energy. Furtwangler is generally considered to be a 'slow' conductor, favouring ponderous and stately tempos, but at times he would whip the orchestra into a frantic maelstorm of speed and power. The music of Beethoven and Bruckner is not for the faint hearted. It draws the listener into a turbulent, tormented and terrifying universe. And Furtwangler is one of the greatest interprters of this music.

EMI has released a 3 CD and a 21 CD box set of his recordings. My biggest grouse with Amazon is, that they are lazy and careless when it comes to providing information about the recordings. The 21 cd set has no details while the 3 cd set has sketchy details, where the the works are mentioned but the names of the composers are missing! But it would be easy to find the information with a casual search.

The Legend: Wilhelm Furtwngler: Amazon.co.uk: Music
The Great EMI..: Wilhelm Furtwangler: Amazon.co.uk: Music

The 3 CD set would be a great introduction. Jumbo box sets often remain a vanity buy. Destined to be prominently displayed, but seldom 'used'. Something like the obligatory "Collected Works of William Shakespeare" bought by many folks, for 'cultivating their minds'. But that happy moment never arrives. There are too many other activities and diversions to be taken care of before time can be found for reading! I too have a copy of Shakespeare's complete works, bought during a visit to Stratford On Avon. A 'symbolic' buy. I read the major 5-6 plays but am blissfully ignorant about the rest. I am not a big fan of the 'Bard Of Avon' or 'English Literature'. I prefer ( worship) the 'Bard of Norway'. Henrik Ibsen. His great plays like The Doll's House, Ghosts, Hedda Gabler, Rosmersholm, John Gabriel Borkman, A Wild Duck, Little Eyolf, The Master Builder, When We Dead Awaken.....are (for me) more powerful and transforming than Macbeth, Lear, Othello or Hamlet.

ajay124 · Jun 3, 2011

Great Maestros of the 20th century
Arturo Toscanini was born in Italy in 1867 and lived till 1957. During his long life he had a triumphant career, which began at the age of 19. His acclaim quickly spread in both Europe and the United States, and during the first three decades of the 20th century his only rival of equal stature was Wilhelm Furtwangler.
His reputation was built on the magnificent operas he conducted at the La Scala, Milan. In 1908 he moved to the New York Metropolitan opera. Some of his greatest recordings were made with The New York Philharmoic between 1926-1936. During the later part of his life he was associated with the NBC Symphony orchestra.
Arturo Toscanini's style of conducting was almost the anti thesis of Furtwangler's conducting. Toscanini was more precise and less interpretative. He belived that the composers intentions should never be overshadowed. His best recordings combine precision with lyricism, subtle tempo modulations with a spontaneous and 'alive' sound which many conductors after him, have sought to achieve.
The Verdi Recordings: Arturo Toscanini, Giuseppe Verdi, NBC Symphony Orchestra: Amazon.co.uk: Music
Beethoven: Complete Symphonies: Ludwig van Beethoven, Arturo Toscanini, NBC Symphony Orchestra: Amazon.co.uk: Music

ajay124 · Jun 5, 2011

On a holiday I try to forget everything that signifies 'home'. A holiday means taking a break from all the mundane and repititive thoughts and action which make up life at home.

But music is something I always carry with me. Never want to take a break from that. I ripped 20 odd cds of classical music on iTunes. Transferred some of the music onto my basic 1gb iPod, and the rest on to my 16gb iPad. Listening to music on the ipod with my Sennheiser HD180 is nice, but when there is peace and quiet around, I prefer the 'headphoneless' sound of the iPad.

I am truly discovering the pleasures of an iPad on this holiday to Palolem, Goa. Luckily wifi is free, and the signal extremely good in the hotel where we are presently stayng. The iPad seems perfect for listening to music while surfing hifivision and my regular bookmarked sites.

Listening to Mozart's Piano Sonatas which Friedrich Gulda had initially recorded on magnetic tape. In 2006 ( I think ) the music was released as a CD box set to world wide acclaim. To say that the music is glorious or magnificent would be an understatement. The music of Mozart transcends time and space. It sounds as pure, natural and perfect in a remote hamlet in Goa in the 21st century, as it would have sounded in the great palaces and concerts halls of Western Europe in the centuries gone by.

Overcast sky, thundering rain, a landscape drenched in green, absolute silence all around, a perfect setting for Mozart's piano sonatas. And a couple of single malts later in the evening. Wish I could have carried the Arcam/Bryston/Vienna Acoustics along

Staxxx · Jun 5, 2011

Hello Ajay and other Western Classical enthusiasts in India. I am half-based in Bangalore now and have brought over a part of my collection of CDs of classical music, which I began collecting in the early 80s. I have met several of the artists mentioned here and also am very familiar with different versions of various compositions by a variety of composers (pre 1940s mostly). As a pianist, the slant of my collection is towards solo piano music and concertos - however I would be glad to discuss interpretations of symphonies or chamber music equally in these forums.
Lastly, always glad to meet up with Banglore-based enthusiasts of course anytime!

ajay124 · Jun 5, 2011

The Gulda Mozart tapes.

Friedrich Gulda - The Mozart Tapes I & II insights

Friedrich Gulda - The Mozart Tapes I & II

ajay124 · Jun 5, 2011

Staxxx said:
Hello Ajay and other Western Classical enthusiasts in India. I am half-based in Bangalore now and have brought over a part of my collection of CDs of classical music, which I began collecting in the early 80s. I have met several of the artists mentioned here and also am very familiar with different versions of various compositions by a variety of composers (pre 1940s mostly). As a pianist, the slant of my collection is towards solo piano music and concertos - however I would be glad to discuss interpretations of symphonies or chamber music equally in these forums.
Lastly, always glad to meet up with Banglore-based enthusiasts of course anytime!

staxxx
Welcome!
Please feel free to share your knowledge and experiences

Sachin · Jun 5, 2011

ajay124 said:
I am truly discovering the pleasures of an iPad on this holiday to Palolem, Goa. Luckily wifi is free, and the signal extremely good in the hotel where we are presently stayng. The iPad seems perfect for listening to music while surfing hifivision and my regular bookmarked sites.

While at Palolem, you may visit nearby shores, viz., Agonda, `Caba De Rama' fort (Place of Rama), the place is clean, lonely, serene and beautiful, the beach there is good too. Hope you have lots of Fun, Fish and Fenny :cheers:

ajay124 · Jun 6, 2011

Thanks Sachin. We will be spending plenty of time on the Palolem, Patnem and Agonda beaches. I love to roam around on a two wheeler in the rain. As long as the rain does not turn into a torrential downpour! I was not aware about the Caba De Rama fort, but now I will certainly visit it.

We are having fun and fish, but no fenny! I have tried several brands of fenny on earlier trips but found them undrinkable. Making good alcohol is an art which we have still not mastered. For that the producers and consumers both need to get out of the 'high' mentality. Rather than single mindedly pursuing the 'kick' element, they need to focus more on the taste and the aroma. For me a good 'nose' and 'palate' is synonymous with a good 'high'. And the kick of a bad tasting and smelling concoction, is more akin to a mule kick in the rear anatomy than a 'buzz' in the head

Sachin · Jun 6, 2011

I agree with you regarding production of Fenny, unless you get good locally brewed fenny, you should not drink the same. These days, it is tough getting the same due to the scarcity of labours and hardwork involved in producing the same with traditional methods.
The one available commercially is not worth drinking, hence many have bitter experince. However, at few places in Goa (fortunately place like Agonda), if you can source good `Fenny' and `Dodheshery' (as pronounced and made of coconut and herbs) to be had along with some amount of ginger,lemon juice and lemonade (any soft drink). It is one among the few excellent drinks available today.
I make it a point to carry some :licklips: stock (trustd, locally brewed by my friend at his farm for his personal consumption and for few families abroad) every 6 months to Pune so as to not miss Goa and its taste.
Cheers !

bhaskie · Jun 6, 2011

great thread! some very nice recos

i am an obsessive western classical lover too! I even play them from my cellphone (when i am not near my rig).

Cheers!

AMITNOIDA · Jun 7, 2011

ajay124 said:
Sure Amit. Beginning from the beginning. Bach, Handel, Vivaldi from the Baroque period. Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven ,Schubert from the classical period. Chopin, Mendelssohn, Brahms ,Schumann from the Romantic period. Tchaikovsky from the Romantic/Nationalist period.

Posting Amazon UK links to some truly great recordings.

Brandenburg Concertos, Violin Concertos (Bath Festival Orchestra, Menuhin): Johann Sebastian Bach: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Vivaldi - The Four Seasons Anniversary Edition (CD & DVD): Nigel Kennedy, English Chamber Orchestra: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Handel: Messiah: Trevor Pinnock: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Haydn: London Symphonies, Vol.1: Joseph Haydn: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Haydn: London Symphonies, Vol.2: Joseph Haydn: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Mozart: Piano Concertos Nos. 20 & 21/25 & 27: Friedrich Gulda, Wiener Philharmoniker, Claudio Abbado: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Mozart: Symphonies Nos.35 "Haffner", 36 "Linzer", 38 "Prager", 39, 40, 41 "Jupiter": Berliner Philharmoniker, Karl Bhm: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Mozart: Eine Kleine Nachtmusik: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Karl Bhm, Wiener Philharmoniker, Berliner Philharmoniker: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Beethoven: Favourite Piano Sonatas (8, 14, 15, 17, 21, 23 & 26): Vladimir Ashkenazy: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Beethoven: The 9 Symphonies: Herbert von Karajan: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Schubert: Trout Quintet/String Quartet No.14 - "Death and the Maiden": Franz Schubert, Amadeus Quartet, Norbert Brainin, Peter Schidlof, Martin Lovett, Siegmund Nissel, Emil Gilels: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Murray Perahia plays Chopin Piano Concertos No.s 1 & 2 etc.: Various: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Mendelssohn / Brahms: Violin Concertos: Anne-Sophie Mutter, Berliner Philharmoniker: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Schumann: The Complete Piano Trios/Piano Quartet/Piano Quintet: Beaux Arts Trio: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Tchaikovsky: The Collectors Edition: Mstislav Rostropovich, London Philharmonic Orchestra: Amazon.co.uk: Music

To begin with, you could acquire 1,2,4,6,8,9 from the list

Based on your reco, I ordered 11 titles from Amazon.UK. Although the tentative delivery was 21 Jun'11, but the consignment is received today quite before the committed date. This is going to be the first time I would have serious listening of western classical.
I had few doubt how the western classical will sound in my tube set-up. But to my surprise, the sound was quite enjoyable with body, decay and dynamism. My ceiling fan now-a-days is giving some noise (time to change the bearing). In silent ambience, the listening will be more enjoyable. First tried Haydn. It will take few weeks to finish the eleven titles. I love this thread, specially about the various great conductors and different period.

Buying Western Classical Music

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