need help in restoring the old HMV fiesta record player

[rag_resh]

Re: what is the problem with that player?

hiiii how r u? i have same model of record player and its working fine till now. what is the problem with that player? i can help you.

mail me to [email protected] and send inside player pictures

 

[abhishek2386]

Hi Friends,

I have a working HMV Fiesta Gramophone, so far my Dad used to look after it and with a quite huge 45 RPM, 33.5 RPM & a few 78 RPM records. The player wasn't used much in last couple of years.

Recently when I tried to play, It appears that the motor speed has slowed down. At 45 RPM it's actually rotating at 31 RPM, at 78 RPM it's actually rotating at 43 RPM.

I checked if the voltage input is correct, and it's perfectly right at 9V DC.

Can you guys give me inputs what might cause the slow down of the TT motor? Is it a worn out capacitor attached with the motor, or an issue with the motor, or the Idler wheel (pulley).

Does anyone of you know where in Kolkata I can find some spare parts of this? It bears a lot of emotional connect with my childhood and a new modern turntable can't restore that. I want to get this restored.

Please guide and help...

 

[lifewater]

Hi,
Don't spend much on this TT.It has a Ceramic cartridge,not good for hifi.Its idler drive TT(pulley).It should have a builtin Amp so you don't need to have phono input on your Amp.The output of a Ceramic cartridge is equal or comparable to line level,so you can directly connect it to speakers.You can also connect it to a diff. amp's line level input(Tape/Aux/Tuner).

Regards,
Sachin

Hi Sachin, regarding the output level of a ceramic cart... OK it is comparable to line level. But what about the RIIA equalization ?? If you have a solution, please post lots of people with old family heirloom TT installed with Ceramic cart would benefit and they will all bless you (DOOA DENGE hyeah

Regards,

Lifewater

 

[reubensm]

Hi Sachin, regarding the output level of a ceramic cart... OK it is comparable to line level. But what about the RIIA equalization ?? If you have a solution, please post lots of people with old family heirloom TT installed with Ceramic cart would benefit and they will all bless you (DOOA DENGE hyeah

Regards,

Lifewater

sorry to bump a question ment for Sachin but have a thought to share from personal experience. One thing worth mentioning about a ceramic cartridge is that it's response is amplitude based instead of velocity based like magnetic cartridges. This means that phono equalization is not required. The cartridge, when electrically loaded with a 1 meg ohm (or more) resistor, would produce a flat response with a typical output voltage of 400 millivolt and it will not require the extra stages of amplification. In low-cost valve radios and phonographs, the cartridge was used to drive the output tube directly (even in the case of famous mullard 3 watt and 10 watt valve amp designs). Another fact which I have noticed from experience is that the tracking weight of ceramic cartridges has some bearing on the output. They tend to sound a bit louder when tracking at 5-7 grams over the usual 3-4 grams (don't try this as you're vinyl will face the wear and tear associated with heavy tracking weight). However it is safe to assume that if you want to produce some good quality listenable sounds from your ceramic cart, a simple RIAA equilization based phono-stage would be a plus. If you are not so concerned about the theory around it, just connect your ceramic cart to the Auxilliary input of your amp (with the 1 meg loading) and you should hear it sing.

 

[reubensm]

Hi Friends,

I have a working HMV Fiesta Gramophone, so far my Dad used to look after it and with a quite huge 45 RPM, 33.5 RPM & a few 78 RPM records. The player wasn't used much in last couple of years.

Recently when I tried to play, It appears that the motor speed has slowed down. At 45 RPM it's actually rotating at 31 RPM, at 78 RPM it's actually rotating at 43 RPM.

I checked if the voltage input is correct, and it's perfectly right at 9V DC.

Can you guys give me inputs what might cause the slow down of the TT motor? Is it a worn out capacitor attached with the motor, or an issue with the motor, or the Idler wheel (pulley).

Does anyone of you know where in Kolkata I can find some spare parts of this? It bears a lot of emotional connect with my childhood and a new modern turntable can't restore that. I want to get this restored.

Please guide and help...

Looks like your fiesta has a worn idler (slippage causes slow speed). You have not mentioned if your platter rotates with torque (having no torque is a telling sign of a worn idler). You may want to take a look at it (under the turntable). If the idler is ok, then you may have to take a look at the motor electricals and the motor itself.

 

[abhishek2386]

Looks like your fiesta has a worn idler (slippage causes slow speed). You have not mentioned if your platter rotates with torque (having no torque is a telling sign of a worn idler). You may want to take a look at it (under the turntable). If the idler is ok, then you may have to take a look at the motor electricals and the motor itself.

Thanks for your response...

The Turntable platter does rotate but at a significantly lower speed. At 45 RPM setting it gives 31 RPM (as counted), at 78 RPM setting it gives 43 RPM (as counted).

I have already checked with the idler wheel, and also primarily guessed that probably it has worn out, but at this moment I don't have a spare idler wheel to replace with and neither these are easily available in Kolkata. :sad:

I have checked with the motor, It has it's Carbon brushes in good condition, and there is no other user servicable part or speed controller sort of thing for this motor.

Will run through the shops of electronic spare parts this weekend, hope he motor is working fine, as it's too hard to find a replacement for that. Any ideas will be highly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[reubensm]

Thanks for your response...

The Turntable platter does rotate but at a significantly lower speed. At 45 RPM setting it gives 31 RPM (as counted), at 78 RPM setting it gives 43 RPM (as counted).

I have already checked with the idler wheel, and also primarily guessed that probably it has worn out, but at this moment I don't have a spare idler wheel to replace with and neither these are easily available in Kolkata. :sad:

I have checked with the motor, It has it's Carbon brushes in good condition, and there is no other user servicable part or speed controller sort of thing for this motor.

Will run through the shops of electronic spare parts this weekend, hope he motor is working fine, as it's too hard to find a replacement for that. Any ideas will be highly appreciated.

Thanks!

Yes, guess you'd need a new idler after all.

 

[aashish351]

Thanks, that was very helpful. I have been looking for a solution to improve the sound quality. Is there an easier way to install the 1 meg resistor which does not require soldering? Something like an RCA plug which can be installed inline.

I recently purchased a Garrard 2025tc which has a ceramic cartridge and the direct connection to AUX is giving a ghastly sound - harsh treble, lots of pops and crackles, ZERO bass. As per the output level, I have to keep the amp volume at 12 o'clock position as compared to 9 o'clock as required during CD playback for the same loudness.

sorry to bump a question ment for Sachin but have a thought to share from personal experience. One thing worth mentioning about a ceramic cartridge is that it's response is amplitude based instead of velocity based like magnetic cartridges. This means that phono equalization is not required. The cartridge, when electrically loaded with a 1 meg ohm (or more) resistor, would produce a flat response with a typical output voltage of 400 millivolt and it will not require the extra stages of amplification. In low-cost valve radios and phonographs, the cartridge was used to drive the output tube directly (even in the case of famous mullard 3 watt and 10 watt valve amp designs). Another fact which I have noticed from experience is that the tracking weight of ceramic cartridges has some bearing on the output. They tend to sound a bit louder when tracking at 5-7 grams over the usual 3-4 grams (don't try this as you're vinyl will face the wear and tear associated with heavy tracking weight). However it is safe to assume that if you want to produce some good quality listenable sounds from your ceramic cart, a simple RIAA equilization based phono-stage would be a plus. If you are not so concerned about the theory around it, just connect your ceramic cart to the Auxilliary input of your amp (with the 1 meg loading) and you should hear it sing.

 

[reubensm]

Thanks, that was very helpful. I have been looking for a solution to improve the sound quality. Is there an easier way to install the 1 meg resistor which does not require soldering? Something like an RCA plug which can be installed inline.

I recently purchased a Garrard 2025tc which has a ceramic cartridge and the direct connection to AUX is giving a ghastly sound - harsh treble, lots of pops and crackles, ZERO bass. As per the output level, I have to keep the amp volume at 12 o'clock position as compared to 9 o'clock as required during CD playback for the same loudness.

Yes, your observation is correct. You can only listen to the content but will not be able to achieve quality. If you want to try the 1 meg approach, just connect a 1 meg ohm resistor (you can go as far as 10 meg ohm) across your phono input (do this separately for each channel) or whatever input you've connected your phono leads to. Again, you wont get drastic changes to the result. Even ceramic cartridges require a degree of amplification and equalization. The extra gain from amplification is required for RIAA feedback loops which will reverse the RIAA pressing standards for you to hear proper music. There is a reason why you heard flat shrill sound with zero bass when you made a direct connect. All vinyl (33rpm and 45rpm) are pressed with universal RIAA standards with low frequency roll off and high frequency enhancement. The RIAA equalization in a phono stage is indended for reversal of the low frequency roll off and high frequency enhancement, resulting in frequency normalization (what we call "flat"). I fyou dont use RIAA equalization, the reversal of low frequency roll off and high frequency enhancement wont take place and you won't hear any bass, but some shrill sounds. Even a simple two transistor ceramic phonostage will do, to solve your prob.

Here is an example:

Preamp Stage For Ceramic Phono Cartridge Or Violin Pickups | EEWeb

 

[aashish351]

Pardon my illiteracy- when you say across does it mean between the + and - of the RCA cable?

 

[reubensm]

more about RIAA equalization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

 

[reubensm]

Pardon my illiteracy- when you say across does it mean between the + and - of the RCA cable?

yes indeed

 

[aashish351]

Actually after reading your post again, instead of taking half steps, I think it's better to get that preamp circuit built. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing well!

Now I need someone to make that preamp for me! .

 

[omishra]

Actually after reading your post again, instead of taking half steps, I think it's better to get that preamp circuit built. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing well!

Now I need someone to make that preamp for me! .

Aashish: You ask sachu888 about any DIY CNC phono preamp kit, if available. I can tell you how to tweak it for your needs. You need less gain. and that could be easily done by exchanging 8 resistances into that kit. that's all. If you need ready made then PM sann (if he is ready)

 

[sachu888]

Please see this thread for Ceramic cart Phonostage http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=12092.0

Regards,
Sachin

 

[omishra]

Please see this thread for Ceramic cart Phonostage http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=12092.0

Regards,
Sachin

Sachin, IMO in that case SSP should work fine with no modification and without any volume control (input fed at 'W' of each channel).

 

[Saket]

Hi Friends,

Recently when I tried to play, It appears that the motor speed has slowed down. At 45 RPM it's actually rotating at 31 RPM, at 78 RPM it's actually rotating at 43 RPM.

Please guide and help...

Looks like your fiesta has a worn idler (slippage causes slow speed). You have not mentioned if your platter rotates with torque (having no torque is a telling sign of a worn idler). You may want to take a look at it (under the turntable). If the idler is ok, then you may have to take a look at the motor electricals and the motor itself.

First of all, I think the idler wheel is out of its proper level. The idler drives the platter based on the stepping pulley fixed to the motor spindle. You may need to lower the level of the idler wheel.

Next, you have stated that it is rotating at 31RPM & 43 RPM, but you have not stated whether there is noticeable wow & flutter. For example, Means that a TT can have perfect 33RPM speed even if it does not rotate for the first 30 secs and then spin at 66RPM for rest of the 30 secs. Hence, theoritically, its 33RPM, but not stable. Please check if there is wow/ flutter or any other abnormality in speed.

Thirdly, since your player was long stored away, you might want to lubricate the motor and idler wheel, but take care not to lubricate only the pivots and not the pulley or wheel itself, or even the inside of the platter which connects to the idler. Also lubricate the main platter bearing on which the platter rotates. I typically use use a drop or two of engine oil or minute quantities of grease for lubricating them.
Also, make sure that the tone arm is not tracking very heavily the records. Old HMV players suffers from this problem; when the heavy tone arm placed on the records, strips noticeable speed of it.

If nothing works, then I have a master plan.
Get hold of a cello tape. Cut a thin strip vertically and stick it to the stepping motor pulley. Prefer to tape it in the clockwise direction. In this way, you increase the diameter of the pulley and hence the speed
If you do the job well, the tape can stick for long.

Get these done and please report back. The TT will be singing for sure.

Regards,
Saket

 

[aashish351]

Sachin, IMO in that case SSP should work fine with no modification and without any volume control (input fed at 'W' of each channel).

That went over my head!

Anyway, for now I'm getting a beheringer pp400 modified to my requirement. Lets hope that works.

 

[omishra]

That went over my head!

Anyway, for now I'm getting a beheringer pp400 modified to my requirement. Lets hope that works.

Sachin has small OP Amp based preamp kit which was developed by us DIY community "Super Simple Preamp - aka SSP".

 

[aashish351]

Sachin has small OP Amp based preamp kit which was developed by us DIY community "Super Simple Preamp - aka SSP".

I see. So you feel that it should work straight away? That's great. I had already purchased the pp400 so I'll try that first and I'd it doesn't work will look at the SSP.