need help in restoring the old HMV fiesta record player

[reubensm]

If nothing works, then I have a master plan.
Get hold of a cello tape. Cut a thin strip vertically and stick it to the stepping motor pulley. Prefer to tape it in the clockwise direction. In this way, you increase the diameter of the pulley and hence the speed

Brilliant idea, reminds me of my college days when my brother and I restored a vintage Garrard RC80 turntable. It had a belts between the motor pulley and the idler wheel (a very very distant version of the Thorens TD124 drive mechanism). I remember we could not get the exact replacement belts and what we got ended up running slow. The issue was solved by taping the pulley for 33rpm and 45rpm as these were the belt drive transmissions. The 78rpm speed was achieved by the motor pulley engaging the idler directly. It was fun, to check the rpm, we had a paper record with a pointer marked on it and we would physically count the revolutions using an old HMT watch :lol:

Good old days. That TT is still doing duty, of course, the cello tape use to fall off every 6 months or so. We solved that problem later on by cuttiing the thin plastic off an intravenous fluid bag and super-gluing it to the pulleys. They were then carefully sanded to achieve the right size. Now, that's a permanent "hot-rod" fix.

I just worked on something similar, last night on JK_Chaos' Pioneer turntable (the plastic coating on the platter spindle was worn causing the platter to wobble).

 

[sachu888]

Sachin, IMO in that case SSP should work fine with no modification and without any volume control (input fed at 'W' of each channel).

Yes,I also think so,but can't guarantee.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[sachu888]

Teflon tape or Plumber's tape would work better if anyone wants to increase pulley size.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[abhishek2386]

Hi Saket and Friends..

I am so excited to let you guys know that the TT is back to life :clapping:

After a tiring running and inquiry around the city's oldest electronics market places in kolkata, I was lucky to find an original HMV Fiesta Idler wheel. The aged man in the store was shocked to see a young guy like me asking for idler wheel of HMV Fiesta. Was happy to know such stores still survives in the fringes of the city of joy

since your player was long stored away, you might want to lubricate the motor and idler wheel, but take care not to lubricate only the pivots and not the pulley or wheel itself, or even the inside of the platter which connects to the idler. Also lubricate the main platter bearing on which the platter rotates. I typically use use a drop or two of engine oil or minute quantities of grease for lubricating them.
Also, make sure that the tone arm is not tracking very heavily the records. Old HMV players suffers from this problem; when the heavy tone arm placed on the records, strips noticeable speed of it.

All of the points mentioned above are exactly correct, and lubing just a very little helped the TT to get into right RPM. The tone arm tension adjustment also made things better.

If nothing works, then I have a master plan.
Get hold of a cello tape. Cut a thin strip vertically and stick it to the stepping motor pulley. Prefer to tape it in the clockwise direction. In this way, you increase the diameter of the pulley and hence the speed
If you do the job well, the tape can stick for long.

Honestly, this was my only hope, and also thought of doing something similar if I wouldn't have got my hands on a new idler wheel.

Sharing some pictures of my dad's lovely Gramophone, and I am so proud to restore it back to life. Let me know if anyone is interested to listen to it's music quality, will share a video then....

Thank you all...

 

[reubensm]

Brilliant!!

Admire your patience in searching for the idler. HMV record players have very high sentimental value in Indian homes and I'm sure the very fact that you restored it would add to your listening pleasure. All the very best.

 

[Saket]

Hi
After a tiring running and inquiry around the city's oldest electronics market places in kolkata, I was lucky to find an original HMV Fiesta Idler wheel. The aged man in the store was shocked to see a young guy like me asking for idler wheel of HMV Fiesta. Was happy to know such stores still survives in the fringes of the city of joy

Great Job Abhishek! Good to know that the player is back to life and in safe hands.

Kolkata never ceases to surprise vinyl lovers. Actually, that's the first place which will come to my mind if I have to get spares for my tts. Places like Lenin Sarani's road side shops have spares of most consumer grade turntables (read HMV & Philips) in abundance like idlers, stylus, etc.

I checked if the voltage input is correct, and it's perfectly right at 9V DC.

Though, not exactly sure about this particular model but most of these tts generally have an AC motor, which run directly on 220V AC. Hence, their speed is dependent on the frquency, i.e. ~50Hz. The volt that you measured was probably output voltage from the motor, feeding the amplifier section of the player.

HMV record players have very high sentimental value in Indian homes and I'm sure the very fact that you restored it would add to your listening pleasure. All the very best.

Exactly Reuben. Once Hiten remarked to my father's HMV on a different thread as " No high-end can re-live those moments"! So true.


Also, utilizing the opportunity, I would like to ask that how many different models of HMV Fiesta were available back in those days? I myself have 2 Fiesta(s) which are completely different (except for the amp) from each other. & Now, the one posted by Abhishek. So, at least we have 3 here.
The two fiesta that I have, have different platters, tonearms, speed control and design...they are completely different.

Also, I think that the newer fiesta that I have, which has a smaller & lighter platter than my father's fiesta has a slower rpm rated AC motor. Please share some knowledge on these too.

Regards,
Saket

 

[reubensm]

The HMV fiesta was a product line, there were several versions. The earlier ones had tube amplifiers. I remember faintly, one of the last fiesta models was circular (or oval) in shape (not sure but I faintly remember HMV had a model like this Portable Record Player | Flickr - Photo Sharing!). 2 things common was that all models had speaker in their lids and had the standard volume/tone controls. My father's first TT was an HMV calypso (long gone). I still remember my very early childhood, sitting and watcing it spin records and also, sitting attentively and admiring it when my father was servicing it.

The earlier fiestas had 4-speeds while the newer ones had only 3-speeds (I think)

A lot more plastics were used on the newer fiestas (especially the tone arm)

 

[Saket]

2 things common was that all models had speaker in their lids and had the standard volume/tone controls.

The earlier fiestas had 4-speeds while the newer ones had only 3-speeds (I think)

A lot more plastics were used on the newer fiestas (especially the tone arm)

My father's fiesta does not has its speaker in the lid. It had a small detachable soundbox which is rectangular and made of wood with white plastic grille in front side.

View attachment 10612
View attachment 10614

Rest of the player was made of wood. The only plastic part was the tonearm and the carrying handle. It's a 4 speed player (16/33/45/78 + neutral). The platter was comparatively heavy. I am posting the pictures TAKEN from the web. They are not my players but the same models. My father's fiesta had one difference, that is color tone. The platter & speed regulator were black instead of white in this picture and the upper deck (the area on which the platter & tone arm rest was white.

My other newer fiesta (popular) is made of plastic. With some shiny steel like material on the tubular tonearm. This is exactly the same system.
View attachment 10613

Thanks,
Saket

 

[abhishek2386]

Also, utilizing the opportunity, I would like to ask that how many different models of HMV Fiesta were available back in those days? I myself have 2 Fiesta(s) which are completely different (except for the amp) from each other. & Now, the one posted by Abhishek. So, at least we have 3 here.
The two fiesta that I have, have different platters, tonearms, speed control and design...they are completely different.

Also, I think that the newer fiesta that I have, which has a smaller & lighter platter than my father's fiesta has a slower rpm rated AC motor. Please share some knowledge on these too.

When I first made my mind to revive this Fiesta of my Dad and some internet search revealed many different Fiesta model images, I was confused. I asked my Dad, "Are you sure this is HMV Fiesta?"

He was not very happy with my Internet based knowledge :licklips: and showed me the original product manual & bill, and I was convinced. As a matter of fact there were many Fiesta models and as I could make out most of the variants were made and available ONLY in India.

Also would like to point that, my Dad's Fiesta runs on 9V.DC. The Gramophone has an arrangement to hold a brick sized 9V battery (Yes, Brick sized hyeah. As those batteries phased out my dad replaced the voltage connection with a 9V Battery Eliminator (That's how they used to call a 9V adapter back then) back in early 90s.

Later on that 9V adapter failed, which was replaced by me with a 9V DC Regulated Power Supply. And this particular model & it's motor is a 9V DC motor with carbon brushes. And yeah those carbon brushes are another headache which might wear out and you need to replace them to get the motor running.

2 things common was that all models had speaker in their lids and had the standard volume/tone controls. My father's first TT was an HMV calypso (long gone). I still remember my very early childhood, sitting and watcing it spin records and also, sitting attentively and admiring it when my father was servicing it.

The earlier fiestas had 4-speeds while the newer ones had only 3-speeds (I think)

A lot more plastics were used on the newer fiestas (especially the tone arm)

My Dad's model has speaker built in the body, and not on the lid. Regarding Speeds, It's 4 speed control 16, 33, 45, 78 +neutral. My Dad doesn't owns any 16 RPM record, and he has probably seen only one such record ever, never owned any. The tone arm is made up of plastic, but yes Dad says many previous models had metal tone arms.

I am reposting the images of my Dad's Fiesta as the ones from previous post are probably broken links.

 

[Saket]

Also would like to point that, my Dad's Fiesta runs on 9V.DC.

My Dad's model has speaker built in the body, and not on the lid.

Thanks for the detailed clarification Abhishek. Sometimes I just wonder that how integrated speakers don't result in feedback loop and skipping of grooves due to the vibration. And, as your player has a DC motor, there could be a provision for speed adjustment too, should you run into trouble again. That could be on the motor itself or on the kit- a small potentiometer. Not 100% sure, but could be a good possibility.

Also, almost all records that spun at 16 RPM were mostly released for speeches & also speech therapies, not for regular music. Hence, its tough to find one in the mainstream collections.

Thanks for posting the shop address too. Will help many. BTW, as you have the original bill intact, you could tell us what was the year of purchase of the player and if you don't mind, the price at that point of time too. There is a thread too: http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/40856-piece-history-please-post.html

Regards,
Saket

 

[Hiten]

I just wonder that how integrated speakers don't result in feedback loop and skipping of grooves due to the vibration.

If you mean sound waves feed back to the stylus, then ceramic stylus are not that sensitive and usually volume is not that much. Vibrations are also not that much so that stylus skips and ceramics cartridges need good weight that also helps. These player are rugged and have survived decades. They have good nostalgic value. I have same HMV Fiesta (Orange One) Have kept it in office. They dont even have transformer just AC supply to the motor, Few parts to reduce voltage to supply to the amp+Tone circuit which drives single speaker. Sound is OK and my clients do notice it with pleasant surprise.
Regards

 

[reubensm]

Thanks for the detailed clarification Abhishek. Sometimes I just wonder that how integrated speakers don't result in feedback loop and skipping of grooves due to the vibration. And, as your player has a DC motor, there could be a provision for speed adjustment too, should you run into trouble again. That could be on the motor itself or on the kit- a small potentiometer. Not 100% sure, but could be a good possibility.

Also, almost all records that spun at 16 RPM were mostly released for speeches & also speech therapies, not for regular music. Hence, its tough to find one in the mainstream collections.

Thanks for posting the shop address too. Will help many. BTW, as you have the original bill intact, you could tell us what was the year of purchase of the player and if you don't mind, the price at that point of time too. There is a thread too: http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/40856-piece-history-please-post.html

Regards,
Saket

Saket, one of your original Fiesta documents has a circuit of the fiesta's amplifier. Can you post a high resolution pic of that circuit diagram. I am going to start work on a vintage Garrard RC210 changer in a few day's time. Considering putting in a small amplifier (if I get a mono ceramic cart only. on another note, if I get a stereo ceramic cart, will skip the amp piece and just build an in-built ceramic phonostage, if I have to go with a magnetic cart, will skip the amp thing all together).

 

[Saket]

Saket, one of your original Fiesta documents has a circuit of the fiesta's amplifier. Can you post a high resolution pic of that circuit diagram. I am going to start work on a vintage Garrard RC210 changer in a few day's time. Considering putting in a small amplifier (if I get a mono ceramic cart only. on another note, if I get a stereo ceramic cart, will skip the amp piece and just build an in-built ceramic phonostage, if I have to go with a magnetic cart, will skip the amp thing all together).

Sure Reuben, but give me a day for that. The manual is at home. I will scan the diagram and post it.

Regards.

 

[Saket]

Hello Reuben,

Trust this helps!

View attachment 10623

Regards,
Saket.

 

[reubensm]

Hello Reuben,

Trust this helps!

View attachment 10623

Regards,
Saket.

It more than helps. This circuit personifies the saying "Beauty lies in simplicity". With regard to the RC210 project, I have 2 options for the power amp:

1) a 1.5 watt 4 transistor amplifier with a AC187/AC188 germanium output transistor pair (incidently this is the second electronics project which I ever built, was in standard-5 at the time)

2) a TBA810 IC based amplifier with inbuilt tone controls (passive).

Depending on the type of cart which I get, I will go with:

(1) for a mono ceramic cart: the 1.5 watt amp or TBA810 amp with a custom ceramic phonostage (in built)
(2) for a stereo ceremic cart: drop both the amplifier options and build a stereo ceramic phonostage (in built)
3) for a stereo magnetic cart: no inbuilt phonostage, just leads going out

Was very interested in your fiesta's amplifier as the feedback loops can be incorporated in the 1.5 watt amp with some minor modifications.

More on this project in a separate thread, after I start.

 

[Saket]

Good to know the details & possibilities of your project.

Once, I restored an old & simple Murphy idler driven record player. It was very similar to HMV fiesta's design. In fact, I think that the whole circuit was the same. I might have the Murphy kit lying somewhere as well.

I changed my father's fiesta's kit with a stereo cassette player's kit (40+40w) controlled by TBA 810 X 2. It sounded funny. Later, the equalization was obtained by putting a resistor across the ceramic cartridge's output leads. Wanted to get hold of a stereo ceramic cartridge which could fit into a Fiesta tone arm, but did not find any. Also, I did not want to change the original looks of the player by adding more controls. However, adding the kit meant that I had to build a separate 12V DC power supply. I built a very simple 12V DC power supply with a good transformer, 2 diodes & a capacitor. The AC motor runs directly from the input line.

The good thing is that the player obviously sounds louder & the bass is more powerful now as compared to the original fiesta kit. Will share the pic when I have some time in my hands as that would require opening the bonnet of the fiesta!

Regards,
Saket

 

[Saket]

Posting details of my restored HMV Fiesta. No cosmetic changes have been made, except the platter mat and a little job on the tone arm. Electronically, it has been modified, esp. the amp section.


View attachment 10635
The player is on duty:

View attachment 10636
Note the changed electronics and the power supply.

View attachment 10637
Simple 12V DC Power supply.

View attachment 10638
The 2 X TBA 810 stereo cassette player's kit

View attachment 10639
The cap across the tonearm leads which helped attain proper equalisation. Not sure of RIAA.

Thanks,
Saket

 

[Saket]

One pic was left out due to the limitation of 5 pics per post:

View attachment 10640
The AC workhorse!

 

[Hiten]

Nice mods Saket. The schematic attachment is not working I think. I have HMV Fiesta like this (Pic from net) ...

has very tiny amplifier and a small rectifier circuit for DC.

The cap across the tonearm leads which helped attain proper equalisation. Not sure of RIAA.

A Cap across tonearm leads would work as a low pass filter.
Regards

 

[Saket]

Nice mods Saket. The schematic attachment is not working I think. I have HMV Fiesta like this (Pic from net) ...
Player-HMV-Fiesta-Popular-with-Amplifier-and-speaker-top-Kozhikode.jpg[/IMG]
has very tiny amplifier and a small rectifier circuit for DC.

A Cap across tonearm leads would work as a low pass filter.
Regards

Thanks Hiten. I have one more Fiesta set which is exactly like the one you have. Actually my old fiesta & your fiesta's 'tiny' amp were the same.

& my apologies for the tone arm cap. Yes, that works as a low-pass filter, but I totally missed to shoot the resistor across the leads that I have used. It's hidden under the wires in the shot.

I will attach the schematic again. That's same for your fiesta too.

Regards,
Saket