Stereo Amplifier for B&W Matrix 805

[doors666]

For your info
B&W ROTEL CLASSE are built by same manufacturer

that counts for nothing. fiat owns ferrari, chrysler and mercedez are together.

i personally never liked rotel. your mileage may vary.

how about emotiva.

 

[nowwhat?]

I still can't get used to the long delay from the time of posting to it appearing on this forum. Any idea when someone can post without moderation?

tirthankar, I replied to you last night and it is buried in the previous page. I forgot to add that I generally play moderate to loud volume and especially if I like a something I play it in a loop and it tends to get louder and louder!

I hope the OP i[ @ nowahat? ] is aware that there are 2 shapes in which the Matrix 805 exists - i.e. 805-H and 805-V. There's a Horizontal ver mainly to have them sit on Studio Desks on Monitoring Desktops while there are Vertical ver meant for stand mounting.

2chFreak, Thanks for your informative posts. Especially about the BAF since I didn't realize it was so essential. After reading your's and koushik's posts, I wondered if I had acquired a white elephant, but on reading it a few more times I realized that all of you are so helpful.

I have the vertical one. I read the manual and they say it can be placed on a flat surface or on stands. I have a large-ish teak wood unit which is around 3 feet in height and 7 feet across and I plan to place it on that.

I have some questions about how to sort-of refurbish the speaker which I was planning to ask later since

• there are few paint droplets on the cabinet which aren't going away,
• one tweeter has a problem (the silver thing in front just after the grille is depressed),
• the yellow woofers are dusty,
• the legs of the speaker (the small plastic rounds) have melted in the Indian heat apparently,
• the tweeters are detached but the wiring was never cut (It sits back in fine -- was planning to use some superglue like Fevikwik to stick them).

@2channelfeak....
except where will the OP find any of the stuff you have mentioned...

Sadly that is what I am finding out too. Have been scouring the boards and don't see any used stuff either.

your thread is long
B&W ROTEL CLASSE are built by same manufacturer

Classe seems to be much too powerful for my needs. I am warming up to Rotel though I still can't get used to the way it looks.

 

[2chFreak]

2chFreak, Thanks for your informative posts. Especially about the BAF since I didn't realize it was so essential. After reading your's and koushik's posts, I wondered if I had acquired a white elephant, but on reading it a few more times I realized that all of you are so helpful.

I have the vertical one. I read the manual and they say it can be placed on a flat surface or on stands. I have a large-ish teak wood unit which is around 3 feet in height and 7 feet across and I plan to place it on that.

I have some questions about how to sort-of refurbish the speaker which I was planning to ask later since

• there are few paint droplets on the cabinet which aren't going away,
• one tweeter has a problem (the silver thing in front just after the grille is depressed),
• the yellow woofers are dusty,
• the legs of the speaker (the small plastic rounds) have melted in the Indian heat apparently,
• the tweeters are detached but the wiring was never cut (It sits back in fine -- was planning to use some superglue like Fevikwik to stick them).

Classe seems to be much too powerful for my needs. I am warming up to Rotel though I still can't get used to the way it looks.

"White elephant" I dunno b'coz it all depends on the condition of the speaker.

-- Kevlar can be carefully dusted off using a soft brush, delicately used.

-- Depression on the tweeter .. hmmm! From the description, it seems the tweeter diaphragm surface has been tampered. Now this can/may/will give rise to inappropriate functioning of the tweeter as it could mess with the functioning of the voice-coil, leading to distortion and other extraneous noises. Replacement tweeters are very expensive at $ 362.00 with 11 pcs in stock at the factory. Part # is ZZ08532. Add sales tax and other expenses; effectively the tweeter would be $400 at the min (that too if B&W decides to sell you one at the minimum).

-- legs of the speaker ?? I didn't get that .. which plastic part ? where ? there's nothing at the bottom


Though Rotel & Classe are brands that have been acquired by B&W, personally - Rotel is not my preference. I've always felt Rotel's traits are way "too unrefined" for the very sober Matrix-800 series that deserves much more. Classe can work well with the newer range of B&Ws esp. the Diamond range of speakers having 2nd and 3rd Order crossovers (unlike the older ones with 4th and 6th Order crossovers but once again, I prefer to look at more warmer, more liquid, wider bandwidth with more effective higher current handling capacity electronics to partner these speakers. And they really deserve 'em. The better the electronics, superior will be the sonics ..

In the 'lesser price brackets', Quad & Meridian amps (both British) have paired very well with these speakers. US made amps are also there but I have to agree in totality with FM "Malvai" that buying older amps that run in Class-A and produce gobs of heat can easily malfunction once in the Hot Indian climate esp. since these electronics are also some 2 decades old. Once again all depends on the condition and whether the electronics were serviced or not.

Odyssey amps also comes to mind esp. some of their amps with higher current handling capabilities. Klaus Bunge, Odyssey owner has good experience with B&Ws as he also distributes Symphonic Line (made in Germany) in the United States & tries to incorporate some of those traits in his amps. More of it in his Kismet line.

You seem to have quite a task it appears .. Good luck. We are here only to help to a capacity possible.

 

[nowwhat?]

i personally never liked rotel. your mileage may vary.

how about emotiva.

Rotel does have a way to stream audio so it fits in nicely with my plan to play FLAC files.

Fact about this purchase is that there are limited ways to audition anything in Bangalore. I still plan to call the local dealers, but since I am new at this it makes more sense for me to go by the opinions of more experienced people.

Though Rotel & Classe are brands that have been acquired by B&W, personally - Rotel is not my preference. I've always felt Rotel's traits are way "too unrefined" for the very sober Matrix-800 series that deserves much more. I prefer to look at more warmer, more liquid, wider bandwidth with more effective higher current handling capacity electronics to partner these speakers. And they really deserve 'em. The better the electronics, superior will be the sonics ..

Odyssey amps also comes to mind esp. some of their amps with higher current handling capabilities. Klaus Bunge, Odyssey owner has good experience with B&Ws as he also distributes Symphonic Line (made in Germany) in the United States & tries to incorporate some of those traits in his amps. More of it in his Kismet line.

I will post some pics of the speakers today.

I went to the Odyssey website and though the Kismet link seems to have been down for a long time, I really like the stuff I see. The Odyssey Cyclops may fit my needs nicely.

My first preference is to source an amp locally. If not, I do have the option of sourcing one from the US or Far East.

 

[2chFreak]

• one tweeter has a problem (the silver thing in front just after the grille is depressed),

Does your damaged Tweeter look like this

If so, a simple repair kit from B&W can fix this. It costs much less & the Part # is ZC08532 for the Tweeter Diaphragm that costs $47 while the repair kit is Part # ZR08532 & costs some little more (and in stock).

• the tweeters are detached but the wiring was never cut (It sits back in fine -- was planning to use some superglue like Fevikwik to stick them).

You can use superglue

 

[tirthankar]

nowwhat?.. looks like you already have a great guide in 2chfreak.

I will try to provide inputs as per my limited knowledge.

What I liked most about the 805 was probably the tweeter which sounded detailed to me even though some people find it harsh. With my Onkyo amplifier I initially did not get any bass but when I cranked up the volume, that too come to life. Generally I liked the level of detail hearing sounds I hadn't heard before.

The tweeter is magical, aint it ?
Since you liked the clarity of the tweeter so much, I would dvise against pairing the speakers with warm amps like NAD, as then you will loose the top and shimmer and sparkle.. NAD has a very warm sound which may appear to some (me included) to mask details.

Odyssey amps are a great match with this speaker. They are actually called "A Poor mans Symphonic Line", because of the similaities they share.. and SL and 800 series matrix is often a match made in heaven.

Classe is another great option, but they are very expensive, and may be too powerful for your needs.

Quad 606 MK2 can be a great match, but it will have to obtained used.. and if you can find one used it will give you a very good match at a much lesser price. A 306 in a good condition will also be a good match, but may turn out to be a little underpowered if you want it very loud. But I doubt it.

Ideally, echoing what I said earlier and what others said a well, my preference of amp with this speaker will be one with a neutral signature, at least 50 watts of clean power which can drive loads down to 4 ohms, and a high current output with good damping.

Rotel has got a brighter signature, and I feel it may irritate the sensitive tweeter of this speaker. It may match better with the more subdued nautilus tweeters in the newer B&Ws, but then again the combination will be on the bright side, which is not my cup of tea. But it may be yours.. if you like some bite and aggression in your music. But if your music refined and laid back, then Rotel may not be the best choice.

More later..

 

[tirthankar]

Oh yes.. one more thing. If you start listening to western classical, it sounds MAGICAL with these speakers. It wasn't for no reason that the 800 matrix series was considered, and b&w more or less still considered, the reference speaker in studios worldwide for mastering western classical music.

These speakers just love western classical.

 

[pratimbayal]

Hello thirthankar

Just dropping in. What speaker do u listen - since u mentioned my spk is 1 nothch below Matrix 805 - Thread being long I could not follow it entirely

Cheers

 

[anm]

dear tirthankar - Are your impressions on NAD based on earlier versions? I haev NAD C375 and I find it detailed. And since NAD is easily available for demo, why not give it a listen with your speakers. You can also get a good DAC for cheap that can be installed as a module inside the integrated amp, cutting out a lot of clutter of wires.

Of course the source and speaker also contribute a lot. Mine are thiels and source is Oppo 95. Even with NAD C542 CDP I find the sound quite detailed, and not at all flabby at the bottom end.

 

[tirthankar]

@Pratim: I own a B&W CDM1-SE. It was designed by the same person who designed the 805 matrix, and shares a similar tweeter and midrange, but a different cabinet and crossover network.

@ anm:

The NAD I heard is the 326bee, the speaker paired was a B&W 601 S3 and the source was an Onkyo universal player. The sound was warm and solid, but it appeared a bit too warm to me and lacked a sparkle in the top end. In this same setup, when I replaced the NAD with a quad 306 + a passive, the sound apparently "cleared".

Now the source was definitely at a fault. But another thing I felt contributed to this is that the B&W speakers are inherently warm more or less across the entire spectrum, and NAD is also known to have a warm signature. It is this combination which may have made the sound appear waxed over.

I have not heard thiels myself, but as I understand, they are more tending towards the bright side of neutral. This combined with the warm sound of the NAD probably gives a better match than NAD with the B&W.

But the 805 matrix which the OP is voiced pretty differently from the Thiels, and I am afraid it may not play well with NAD.

I wont mind listening to my speakers paired with a higher end NAD like the 375/376, but I dont know anyone in my city with that amp, and I dont think any dealer will be willing to give me a home demo since I dont intend to buy an amp at the present.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi
Have owned most B&W speakers in the last two decades. At this time I am entirely off that sound but there are tons of options to drive this speaker well and ROTEL is one of the worst options for them!!!! Yes I know that this is recommended with B&W if you are on a budget & Classe if u have a deeper pocket. Am sure u know why!!!!
An Arcam will work better to my ears with most B&W (definately the latter ones) as it will tame a bit of the tizz & zing of the alum tweeter. Rotel (owned both RB 1080 & RB 1090 for a short while many years ago) to me just wont do. The Marantz that you mention is also not the best match. Bryston that manav suggested works well in most aspects (3b is enough, no need for 4B) BUT the upper end may be too forward but then thats a personal call that you have to hear & make.
Classe has NEVER worked for me too with any of my speakers. I am saying all this in spite of the fact that the India distributor of the brand is a dear friend of mine , as this is only my opinion.
Look for amps that are refined. An amp/ speaker combo that wows u when u first listen with tons of detail generally leads to fatigue soon & that is the last thing you want.
Bought the 804D for a relative recently and its driven by the Accuphase E 460 and it is good in most aspects.
Am not asking you up your budget or anything just to NOT go by the popular combinations of Rotel/ B&W or Classe/B&W as there are tons of other gear that does a better job at similar money.
Rgds

 

[nowwhat?]

Thought I would share some pics of the speakers. As you can make out, there is a lot of dust in Bangalore.

A: The Speakers
Just planned to place them like this but in a different room.


B: Left Tweeter
Please tell me what to do. 2ChFreak: Should I go ahead and order the replacement?


C: Right Tweeter
Looks fine.


D: Left Woofer
Both woofers look fine in the picture, but I still think it should be 4 or 5 shades brighter.


E: Right Woofer

 

[nowwhat?]

... Contd.

F: Feet of speaker
The tiny rubber pads seem to be disintegrating. It starts turning into powder every time I move the speaker. Any ideas for replacement?


G: Droplets of White Paint on the Cabinet
Suggestions anyone?


H: Left Tweeter
Rusted screw, but otherwise looks OK. As you can see the plastic on one side is broken. From what I understand the breaking plastic is common to this speaker and most owners use SuperGlue to glue it back together.


I: Right Tweeter
Not sure but looks like rust. What do I do?


J: Inside of Cover
Looks OK, but there are different shades of grey.

 

[nowwhat?]

... Contd.

K: Covers
Looks fine, but wish there was some way to remove that discoloration.


L: Rear
Looks OK.


M: Contacts
Dusty, but fine.


N: Small chips on the corner of one speaker
Should I do anything?


I played it a few times when I had my previous amplifier and in terms of its functioning, I felt it worked well.

Thanks for viewing. I look forward to your suggestions!

 

[doors666]

that rust doesnt look good. remove the tweeter and check, see if you can scrap it off and use some kind of protection.

dented dome is a common problem. lots of people on the net have used a vacuum cleaner at low power (use a piece of cloth in between) with good results. dont blame me if you damage your tweeter

 

[2chFreak]

@ nowwhat?

Reply to your queries mailed to you

 

[nandac]

be careful buying used amps in india. some sellers (not users, but professional sellers) are honest but many are not.

you should also consider brands like musical fidelity, roksan, primare, mcintosh, creek, rega etc.

 

[aashish351]

I have heard a friends NAD C370 + B&W 602 S3 combination sound excellent. This was almost 10 years ago.

 

[2chFreak]

I have heard a friends NAD C370 + B&W 602 S3 combination sound excellent. This was almost 10 years ago.

Would you fit JK or Ceat tyres on your 20 yr old Merc ? Or still look for Continental, Michelin, Pirelli, Bridgestone ?

Thats the ques one needs to ask ? These speakers deserve much more

 

[nowwhat?]

Hi
An Arcam will work better to my ears with most B&W (definately the latter ones) as it will tame a bit of the tizz & zing of the alum tweeter. Rotel (owned both RB 1080 & RB 1090 for a short while many years ago) to me just wont do. The Marantz that you mention is also not the best match. Bryston that manav suggested works well in most aspects (3b is enough, no need for 4B) BUT the upper end may be too forward but then thats a personal call that you have to hear & make.

Bought the 804D for a relative recently and its driven by the Accuphase E 460 and it is good in most aspects.
Rgds

Thanks, dinyaar. These are excellent suggestions!