Stereo Hunt in Kolkata (60k)
- Thread starter tirthankar
- Start date
koushik
Well-Known Member
Hi
Want people's opinion on Wharfedale Atlantic GE500. How is it?
Goes as low as 30Hz @ Rs. 24K+
Want people's opinion on Wharfedale Atlantic GE500. How is it?
Goes as low as 30Hz @ Rs. 24K+
Last edited:
koushik
Well-Known Member
Anyone, guys?
tirthankar
Active Member
Hello all, back to this thread after a long time after I restarted my hunt after a pause.
I had mentioned in this thread in most of my listening impressions, that I was finding the sound too bright for my taste in all or most cases, even if the speakers had appealed to me with their other qualities.
This, coupled with the fact that in almost all the places, I had a very limited choice of amplifiers which made it difficult for me to determine a baseline for speaker, I had decided to take an approach opposite to what is normally recommended. I decided to get myself an amplifier, something which has a signature I determined to be of my taste, towards the warm side of neutral, but without the cost of details, with enough grunt to drive good bookshelves and enough dynamic power to support a classical orchestra.
To cut a long story short, I got myself a Quad 306 power amp from ebay uk, a luminous audio axiom signature version passive pre, and a pair of audioquest ruby x3 as pre power interconnects.
Today was my first audition with the amplification set.
I first visited pro fx, my target speakrs for audition being Q300 and Focal 706V. And I was accompanied by a fellow HFVian, who wanted to audition sub 30k speakers, and was also eager to listen to the quad amplification.
We first hooked up the KEF Q100. When the first song began playing, it was evident that the quad amplification was much different than the denon 510a I had listened to earlier. The sound was more detailed and involving, with micro details more palpable. But I was expecting more from the quad.
And as time passed and the amp warmed up, the sound started to change perceptibly. It became more and more detailed, dynamic and open.
After around half an hour, the sound was VERY much different from what we were hearing initially. The KEF was taken to another level than where the denon had taken it. The vocals were silky and smooth with good body, the bass was punchy and tight.. the highs were extended but sounded sweet. Soundstaging and imaging was average, but better in well recorded tracks Overall, the speaker did not disappoint.. and it was evident that it responded well to better amplification. Its a very good speaker, for the price it can be had for.
Then we hooked up KEF Q300, with big expectations. But what a disappointment!! Other than a deeper bass extension and more body to the midrange, the speaker sounded worse than the Q100. The bass was boomy in places where the bass extended.. like bass guitars, and the details simply were not there. The tweeter was harsh and imaging and soundstaging was like listening in a lane. The shop person then told us that the speakers were absolutely new with no burn in at all. You can imagine how disappointed I was ! I had expected this speaker to be a good contender in my search.
Next up was Focal 706V. I had listened to its bigger brother, the 714, and found it to be an extremely detailed speaker, but with limited bass weight.. and tending towards brightness.
This speaker too was brand new with no burn in, so I had my expectations diminished.
But when it started playing, I identified two things - one, the brightness which I had found slightly harsh last time, was now mellowed down a lot by the 306.. the treble extension was there, but it was MUCH sweeter. Two, this speaker had MUCH better detailed than the KEF, at least to my ears. The soundstage was very open and spacious, instrument separation made the kefs sound boxy, and microdynamics like the release and enxtension of energy of a sitar string, was more evident. But it lagged behind in body and bass weight. The bols of the pakhwaj in "Dheem Ta Tare" from the movie Thakshak, had more body and realism in the kef, and sounded shallow in the Focal.
If you have a good subwoofer or want to run with a subwoofer, this speaker is worth a listen.
However none of the speakers performed well in a genre Iisten to a lot. Orchestral music made them sound limp. Beethoven's 5th symphony 1st movement had no dynamics, the fantastic solo violin in Vivaldi's winter 1st movement was hollow. The focal fared better, in that it had much better imaging and separation, which I had already seen in the 714. But the lack of bass extension robbed the sound of the body that is so needed to sound well in orchestral music.
After profx we visited promises instruments to listen to b&w. They only had 601 s3 for demo. Here we ran into a conundrum... they did not have any wire with a 4 mm banana termination, which is the only thing the quad accepts. They had NAD 316bee, but were not very eager to take it out and asked us to llisten to an Onkyo stereo receiver. Unhappily, we agreed, and within 3-4 minutes decided that the receiver was trash and requested them to hook up the NAD.
With the NAD, the situatuin bettered. The sound was warm and smooth, but too smooth. After listening for a some time, we realised that there was no high frequency to speak of. The music seemed to be smeared in a layer of vaseline.. it sounded smooth and bland.
We decided that we would try bare wire on the quad and coerced the shop guys into doing that..
When I pressed play, the first notes to come out were the guitar notes in the beginning of hey you clear and shining and extended. We literrally felt the vaseline rubbed off. It was not placebo, not because it was my amp, but the 306 blew the nad out of water. And it was not yet warmed up.
The next one hour we listened only to the B&W. The listening room was far from ideal, it wasnt a listening room at all but the middle of the shop floor, with glass all around, people walking in between, lcd tv's (yes they sell that too) and numerous distractions. And the speakers had little room to breathe.
In spite of that, the 601 s3 gave us the best music of the day. It was a very well burnt in pair, I believe it has seen 50-100, if not more hours of play.
The thing which stood out most was a liquid midrange. Though it did seem a little muddy at times, that disappeared as the amp warmed up.. Both male and female vocals sounded lovely, the male vocals had just the right weight, and lata sounded sweeter than I have ever heard on a stereo. The treble was very much present and detailed,it sounded a little harsh in poorer recording, but in better ones it seemed smooth but open. The soundstage suffered because of the cramped space, but the left speaker had an open speace on the side and threw the image well. If given the space, I feel it can create a much wider sound. And it was deep too. One of my tests of soundstage is the starting few minutes of One of My Turns by Pink Floyd. The staging was definitely 3d, and extended well behind the speakers.If it could have proper placement and a proper room, I think it could have performed even better.
The bass was deep, and extended well. The little boominess which was there was most probably from the room. The leathury sound of the pakhawaj from Dheem Ta Tare was reproduced very well, and without missing a beat along the fast and complex passages. Dynamic response was extremely good and the speaker performed very well with orchestral music. The quiet and loud passages of the 5th symphony or Winter had good finesse, the crescendo had good power and the solo violin had good body and beautiful tonality. It sounded leagues ahead of the kef and focal in this genre.
Near the end, we were not critical any more but just listened to the music..
In the end it was a tiring, but fruitful day. I will have to visit SKS at least, I will listen to the Epos M12i, which I had liked so much, with this amp, before taking the plunge. But till now, for me, the 601 s3 is the winner. If it could have proper placement and a proper room, I think it could have performed even better.
Thank you all, for reading through the long post.
I had mentioned in this thread in most of my listening impressions, that I was finding the sound too bright for my taste in all or most cases, even if the speakers had appealed to me with their other qualities.
This, coupled with the fact that in almost all the places, I had a very limited choice of amplifiers which made it difficult for me to determine a baseline for speaker, I had decided to take an approach opposite to what is normally recommended. I decided to get myself an amplifier, something which has a signature I determined to be of my taste, towards the warm side of neutral, but without the cost of details, with enough grunt to drive good bookshelves and enough dynamic power to support a classical orchestra.
To cut a long story short, I got myself a Quad 306 power amp from ebay uk, a luminous audio axiom signature version passive pre, and a pair of audioquest ruby x3 as pre power interconnects.
Today was my first audition with the amplification set.
I first visited pro fx, my target speakrs for audition being Q300 and Focal 706V. And I was accompanied by a fellow HFVian, who wanted to audition sub 30k speakers, and was also eager to listen to the quad amplification.
We first hooked up the KEF Q100. When the first song began playing, it was evident that the quad amplification was much different than the denon 510a I had listened to earlier. The sound was more detailed and involving, with micro details more palpable. But I was expecting more from the quad.
And as time passed and the amp warmed up, the sound started to change perceptibly. It became more and more detailed, dynamic and open.
After around half an hour, the sound was VERY much different from what we were hearing initially. The KEF was taken to another level than where the denon had taken it. The vocals were silky and smooth with good body, the bass was punchy and tight.. the highs were extended but sounded sweet. Soundstaging and imaging was average, but better in well recorded tracks Overall, the speaker did not disappoint.. and it was evident that it responded well to better amplification. Its a very good speaker, for the price it can be had for.
Then we hooked up KEF Q300, with big expectations. But what a disappointment!! Other than a deeper bass extension and more body to the midrange, the speaker sounded worse than the Q100. The bass was boomy in places where the bass extended.. like bass guitars, and the details simply were not there. The tweeter was harsh and imaging and soundstaging was like listening in a lane. The shop person then told us that the speakers were absolutely new with no burn in at all. You can imagine how disappointed I was ! I had expected this speaker to be a good contender in my search.
Next up was Focal 706V. I had listened to its bigger brother, the 714, and found it to be an extremely detailed speaker, but with limited bass weight.. and tending towards brightness.
This speaker too was brand new with no burn in, so I had my expectations diminished.
But when it started playing, I identified two things - one, the brightness which I had found slightly harsh last time, was now mellowed down a lot by the 306.. the treble extension was there, but it was MUCH sweeter. Two, this speaker had MUCH better detailed than the KEF, at least to my ears. The soundstage was very open and spacious, instrument separation made the kefs sound boxy, and microdynamics like the release and enxtension of energy of a sitar string, was more evident. But it lagged behind in body and bass weight. The bols of the pakhwaj in "Dheem Ta Tare" from the movie Thakshak, had more body and realism in the kef, and sounded shallow in the Focal.
If you have a good subwoofer or want to run with a subwoofer, this speaker is worth a listen.
However none of the speakers performed well in a genre Iisten to a lot. Orchestral music made them sound limp. Beethoven's 5th symphony 1st movement had no dynamics, the fantastic solo violin in Vivaldi's winter 1st movement was hollow. The focal fared better, in that it had much better imaging and separation, which I had already seen in the 714. But the lack of bass extension robbed the sound of the body that is so needed to sound well in orchestral music.
After profx we visited promises instruments to listen to b&w. They only had 601 s3 for demo. Here we ran into a conundrum... they did not have any wire with a 4 mm banana termination, which is the only thing the quad accepts. They had NAD 316bee, but were not very eager to take it out and asked us to llisten to an Onkyo stereo receiver. Unhappily, we agreed, and within 3-4 minutes decided that the receiver was trash and requested them to hook up the NAD.
With the NAD, the situatuin bettered. The sound was warm and smooth, but too smooth. After listening for a some time, we realised that there was no high frequency to speak of. The music seemed to be smeared in a layer of vaseline.. it sounded smooth and bland.
We decided that we would try bare wire on the quad and coerced the shop guys into doing that..
When I pressed play, the first notes to come out were the guitar notes in the beginning of hey you clear and shining and extended. We literrally felt the vaseline rubbed off. It was not placebo, not because it was my amp, but the 306 blew the nad out of water. And it was not yet warmed up.
The next one hour we listened only to the B&W. The listening room was far from ideal, it wasnt a listening room at all but the middle of the shop floor, with glass all around, people walking in between, lcd tv's (yes they sell that too) and numerous distractions. And the speakers had little room to breathe.
In spite of that, the 601 s3 gave us the best music of the day. It was a very well burnt in pair, I believe it has seen 50-100, if not more hours of play.
The thing which stood out most was a liquid midrange. Though it did seem a little muddy at times, that disappeared as the amp warmed up.. Both male and female vocals sounded lovely, the male vocals had just the right weight, and lata sounded sweeter than I have ever heard on a stereo. The treble was very much present and detailed,it sounded a little harsh in poorer recording, but in better ones it seemed smooth but open. The soundstage suffered because of the cramped space, but the left speaker had an open speace on the side and threw the image well. If given the space, I feel it can create a much wider sound. And it was deep too. One of my tests of soundstage is the starting few minutes of One of My Turns by Pink Floyd. The staging was definitely 3d, and extended well behind the speakers.If it could have proper placement and a proper room, I think it could have performed even better.
The bass was deep, and extended well. The little boominess which was there was most probably from the room. The leathury sound of the pakhawaj from Dheem Ta Tare was reproduced very well, and without missing a beat along the fast and complex passages. Dynamic response was extremely good and the speaker performed very well with orchestral music. The quiet and loud passages of the 5th symphony or Winter had good finesse, the crescendo had good power and the solo violin had good body and beautiful tonality. It sounded leagues ahead of the kef and focal in this genre.
Near the end, we were not critical any more but just listened to the music..
In the end it was a tiring, but fruitful day. I will have to visit SKS at least, I will listen to the Epos M12i, which I had liked so much, with this amp, before taking the plunge. But till now, for me, the 601 s3 is the winner. If it could have proper placement and a proper room, I think it could have performed even better.
Thank you all, for reading through the long post.
Last edited:
koushik
Well-Known Member
I want to add about the saxophone on the Careless Whisper track. With KEF Q100 it was smooth and sounded natural but was missing the body and was a bit thin. But with B&W 601 it was even smoother and the presence was even more with greater body.
KEF Q100 LFR was 49Hz and B&W was 60Hz and it was evident that KEF is giving more LF extension in track like "Roja janeman".
I am hearing the song "Vaadiyaan Meraa Daaman, Raaste Merii Baahen" for last 20 years, may be, but never heard the way I heard it today with Quad and B&W! I almost shouted out, Man! I want these speakers. Sub 30K huh?? I think I HAVE to extend my budget big time!
KEF Q100 LFR was 49Hz and B&W was 60Hz and it was evident that KEF is giving more LF extension in track like "Roja janeman".
I am hearing the song "Vaadiyaan Meraa Daaman, Raaste Merii Baahen" for last 20 years, may be, but never heard the way I heard it today with Quad and B&W! I almost shouted out, Man! I want these speakers. Sub 30K huh?? I think I HAVE to extend my budget big time!
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Flash
Well-Known Member
Nice review guys
BTW
The B&W 601s3 has been discontinued by B&W and been replaced by the B&W 685.
I have listened to both of them side by side. and the 685 IMO is a better speaker and B&W have made some considerable improvement with the newer series.
Although i was getting the 601s3 at a steal I jumped in and picked up the 685.
I use the B&W 685 with 2 Rotel Monoblocks and Arcam pre. (Will be changing the preamp soon). I augment the bass with the RythmikAudio F15HP sub.
(It was extremely difficult to integrate the sub with the speakers - but managed to get it right using the parametric EQ on the sub. )
At the moment I am in stereo heaven.
Anyway if the 601s3 it is --- play hardball and negotiate hard since it is discontinued you should be able to get it pretty cheap
tirthankar
Active Member
Thanks Flash and Saikat. We will definitely hear the aviano 2. I had listened to it earlier with ca 540, and had liked it a lot.
In the second shop which we visited for b&w, they only had 601 s3 and 683, and the 683 was much above my budget
they also had mission m35i fs and jamo. But I was looking for bs only.
One more thing I forgot mentioning as I found it out later. Profx used a denon 510 CD player.. while the b&w was played on an onkyo multi disc player. That may have been a reason behind the occasional and slight muddy mids, boomy bass and slightly harsh highs on the b&w. I can't imagine how these shops pair such equipment with such sources.
Flash.. you said you heard 685 and 601 side by side. Can I please request you to point out what were the things about 685 which were different and what made you choose it over the other? Also, what sort of music do you like and a mention of the tracks you listened to, if you can recall. I know it's a lot I am asking, and I will be grateful for whatever input you may provide.
In the second shop which we visited for b&w, they only had 601 s3 and 683, and the 683 was much above my budget
they also had mission m35i fs and jamo. But I was looking for bs only.One more thing I forgot mentioning as I found it out later. Profx used a denon 510 CD player.. while the b&w was played on an onkyo multi disc player. That may have been a reason behind the occasional and slight muddy mids, boomy bass and slightly harsh highs on the b&w. I can't imagine how these shops pair such equipment with such sources.
Flash.. you said you heard 685 and 601 side by side. Can I please request you to point out what were the things about 685 which were different and what made you choose it over the other? Also, what sort of music do you like and a mention of the tracks you listened to, if you can recall. I know it's a lot I am asking, and I will be grateful for whatever input you may provide.
Hey Tirthankar,
I can stress more on how much you should hear the Monitor Audio GS10 Bookshelves. These were 1.1L and discontinued. You can have them below your budget of 60k.
These eat the B&W 6 series RAW.
And whats with the warmup time for quads? If it takes 1/2 hour everytime, is it not a problem? Lot of times we hear music less than 1/2 hr easily. Are you sure it is not placebo?
I can stress more on how much you should hear the Monitor Audio GS10 Bookshelves. These were 1.1L and discontinued. You can have them below your budget of 60k.
These eat the B&W 6 series RAW.
And whats with the warmup time for quads? If it takes 1/2 hour everytime, is it not a problem? Lot of times we hear music less than 1/2 hr easily. Are you sure it is not placebo?
koushik
Well-Known Member
^^^ No it isn't a placebo. It really does take arround 20 mins to warm up and the difference is easily perceivable in sound texture.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Yeah the Monitor Audio GS10 will cream the 6 series B&W... look at it seriously if budget permits.
The Revel M22 will cream the GS10.. not sure if you can get it in your budget though.
But i would look at the MA GS10 seriously if you can stretch. heard it at Adelphi Singapore a while back.
The Revel M22 will cream the GS10.. not sure if you can get it in your budget though.
But i would look at the MA GS10 seriously if you can stretch. heard it at Adelphi Singapore a while back.
Why Strech?
The B&W 685 is 55k now and GS10 60k?
A demo piece can be negotiated for even lower price I think.
IMO 5k is not streching.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Well the 685 has the Nautilus tweeter closer to the woofer, the trickle down tweeter tech from the 8 series to the new 6 series has helped the new 6 series sound more transparent and brings out finer detail. So Detail, detail, detail
I found the 601 to sound thinner with vocals. The 601 is warmer whereas the 685 although still warm is tending more towards the neutral side of business.
However the advantage the 601 has is that you can get away with listening to a bad recording. the 685 immediately exposes a poor quality soundtrack or a bad recording.
the other aspect where I found the 685 to be marginally better was the front to back presentation.
Center imaging is pretty easy to achieve on almost any speaker, front to back presentation is pretty difficult. the 685 was marginally better and each instrument could be placed exactly (almost exactly) where the musician is located in the recording.
However I have heard better front to back presentations with higher end speakers albeit the cost. and that's why i said almost exactly. Again it depends on amplification as well
However overall not much to discern between the 2. But the difference is immediately evident when placed side by side. However what is apparent that they belong to the same family.
If there is a 10-15k difference I would pick the 601
Well in terms of music.
I listen to a lot of Jazz, Classical, Soul, slow rock / ballads and Violin Instrumentals.
I cant really remember the sound tracks that i played. but this is the sort of music I usually play
Chris Jones - Long after your gone
Diana Krall - Temptation
Allan Taylor - Wheel Of Fortune
Sinead O'conner - Troy
Sarah McLachlan
Sara K - Turned My Upside Down
Hugh Masekela - Coal Train
The Ozone Percussion Band - Jazz Variants
Andrea Bocelli - Romanza
Traumeri R Schumann - Antiphone Blues
So may have played some of the above when i auditioned them.
I think B&W 685s can be bought around 43 or 44k with B&W
when I enquired, it was 54k. Increased because of rupee depreciation. 684 is 1.05L and 683 was 1.35L.
B&W 6 series does not make sense at these levels.
Flash
Well-Known Member
Why Strech?
The B&W 685 is 55k now and GS10 60k?
A demo piece can be negotiated for even lower price I think.
IMO 5k is not streching.
Although the MRP is 55k , As kittu mentioned it can be bought for approx 45k .. A dealer in Pune quoted 62k recently and said he can get it down in the sub 50k range. did not inquire too much though
So the GS10 at 60k would be a 15k stretch
The OP heard the 601s3. since it is discontinued, the demo piece should work out in the 30k range so 15k stretch for the 685 and 30k stretch for the GS10
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tirthankar
Active Member
Thanks for the suggestion Blasto. Unfortunately MA is not available for audition in my city
Also, when I began the thread, I had a total budget of 60k for speaker and amp.
Now that I have the amp, I am looking for speakers only - and my budget for speakers is 40k
Should I have the thread title changed?
Thank you Flash for the reply. I had wanted to hear the 685 too..but it was not available for a listen.
Also, when I began the thread, I had a total budget of 60k for speaker and amp.
Now that I have the amp, I am looking for speakers only - and my budget for speakers is 40k
Should I have the thread title changed?
Thank you Flash for the reply. I had wanted to hear the 685 too..but it was not available for a listen.
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Thanks for the suggestion Blasto. Unfortunately MA is not available for audition in my city
Also, when I began the thread, I had a total budget of 60k for speaker and amp.
Now that I have the amp, I am looking for speakers only - and my budget for speakers is 40k
Should I have the thread title changed?
Thank you Flash for the reply. I had wanted to hear the 685 too..but it was not available for a listen.
Oh ok..
I thought 60k is for speakers.
685 will also be out of budget mostly. Please check.
Flash
Well-Known Member
@tirthankar
What did the dealer quote for the 601s3 ?
What did the dealer quote for the 601s3 ?
Buy from India's official online dealer!
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