Thinking upgrading but it's too difficult.

[Analogous]

The audition was done in a controlled environment at a dealer’s place. The wiring he used is top notch I can say. As I said before & simillar to what you are mentioning, B&W might need some care in choosing partnew equipment.

After so much discussion and several suggestions and distracting sambar talk, hope you have a better sense of what you want?
1. Continue with the current AV receiver and chain but change the speakers?
2. Select a dedicated two channel amp and speakers for a dedicated music set up
3. Use your current front pair speakers but add a stereo amplifier
Other options?

 

[bpranay]

After so much discussion and several suggestions and distracting sambar talk, hope you have a better sense of what you want?
1. Continue with the current AV receiver and chain but change the speakers?
2. Select a dedicated two channel amp and speakers for a dedicated music set up
3. Use your current front pair speakers but add a stereo amplifier
Other options?

1. I am going to continue with the current speakers as well as AVR
2. Planning to go for a dedicated stereo amp + new speakers for music setup.
3. Current speakers will still be attached to my AVR & in future once the AVR is replaced then will merge music setup with the AVR and will do away with the speakers.

 

[hifimaddy]

B&W 606S3: It did not impress me at all. They are too bright. The sound stage was big, vocals were strong, highs were too high but it was sounding quite unnatural to me. It would have given me ear fatigue had I continued listening. IF I compare it with my existing speakers, although the soundstage with Wharfy's is not big but the any of the above song played is almost comparable to live stage listening. You hear every string of the guitar second by second, low, mid and highs gets separated meticulously. It seems so natural to me which was badly (I mean it) missing in B&W. May be the speakers were taken straight out of the packing & attached to AVR so some of its performance could be attributed to it being fresh.

I had a plan to buy 606 two years ago, and I have auditioned many speakers, including Klipsh, Dali, Focal, Monitor Audio, Canton, etc. I have done as many auditions as possible and spent many hours in the shop. 606 is more on the bright side, but very detailed. They have a big sound stage and more base performances. Then I tried 706; they are fantastic, and I chose 706 to buy. Later, after one week, when I visited the shop, 706 was out of stock, and I auditioned for focal 906 side with 606. They both have the same sound signature. but 606 has more base and little on the bright side. 906 has a big sound stage; they sound like big tower speakers with crip clarity, and now I am using it without a subwoofer and am very happy with it.
amplifier/AVR is the key for 606 to shine. I think I have auditioned Rotal, Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha amps in different time frames. For me, rotal is a good match for 606/706.

 

[arj]

Have we have made you spend more money on Audio ? , Yaay !

But again, Some of the best changes in sound I have found has been via

• Good Placement and
• Better source ie transport, media and DAC

If you want true bang for the buck, One thing you could try is using a better DAC and use the existing AVR and Speaker. Spotify is anyway compressed and a DAC might just get better out of the music than the AVR. Your amplification and speaker should be quite good for that.

If you do see an improvement, after that read up/you-tube on speaker placements after that and you will agin get a better sound

The above 2 are like foundations of Audio
After these you can of course continue on the upgrade path but a good source and placement will even then continue to give you better returns on sound than upgrading components.

I personally would look at equipment upgrades as the last measure if you still do not get the sound you get,..its the easiest to do as long as you have money to spend...but if your placement is not optimised and source not good enough all you are doing is putting Band-Aid !

 

[bpranay]

Th

Have we have made you spend more money on Audio ? , Yaay !

But again, Some of the best changes in sound I have found has been via

• Good Placement and
• Better source ie transport, media and DAC

If you want true bang for the buck, One thing you could try is using a better DAC and use the existing AVR and Speaker. Spotify is anyway compressed and a DAC might just get better out of the music than the AVR. Your amplification and speaker should be quite good for that.

If you do see an improvement, after that read up/you-tube on speaker placements after that and you will agin get a better sound

The above 2 are like foundations of Audio
After these you can of course continue on the upgrade path but a good source and placement will even then continue to give you better returns on sound than upgrading components.

I personally would look at equipment upgrades as the last measure if you still do not get the sound you get,..its the easiest to do as long as you have money to spend...but if your placement is not optimised and source not good enough all you are doing is putting Band-Aid !

Infact I was wondering why none touched this topic of having DAC.

Actually for the past 2 days I was researching if DAC can help me with my current set up. DAC is generally used for wireless playback AFAIK but I am also looking forward to improve the performance of the sound while watching youtube videos on my OLED.

Please let me know if DAC has any role to play if the music source is through video.

I am even considering to have Wiim music streamer.

 

[arj]

Please let me know if DAC has any role to play if the music source is through video.

if the output is a spdif ie digital then the DAC has the most important role to play...usually from a tv its HDMI hence not sure how you have it connected although most do have an option of optical as well.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Off Topic: I always thought that sambar was the stuff served with dosa/idli/vada.

It's called Toshai and not Dosa.

 

[fLUX]

In my experience adding a dac to avr was a minimalistic improvement in sound. AVR does a A to D conversion again to apply the speaker dsp setting & then again a D to A conversion finally( unless played in pure direct in which case this is bypassed i believe). Personally I find the 2600h & even 4500h to be average integrated amplifiers so a good source to feed these would be a waste unless you better the amplifier down the line. If possible borrow and try before jumping down this path, dacs are not bulky so if you have some audiophile friends nearby should be able to borrow and try.

Also dac is not for wireless playback , it serves as a digital to analog convertor & your AVR already has a decent dac to begin with , so you will need to spend a pretty penny to see a noticeable improvement.

 

[bpranay]

In my experience adding a dac to avr was a minimalistic improvement in sound. AVR does a A to D conversion again to apply the speaker dsp setting & then again a D to A conversion finally( unless played in pure direct in which case this is bypassed i believe). Personally I find the 2600h & even 4500h to be average integrated amplifiers so a good source to feed these would be a waste unless you better the amplifier down the line. If possible borrow and try before jumping down this path, dacs are not bulky so if you have some audiophile friends nearby should be able to borrow and try.

Also dac is not for wireless playback , it serves as a digital to analog convertor & your AVR already has a decent dac to begin with , so you will need to spend a pretty penny to see a noticeable improvement.

The Denon will not bypass the internal DAC except that it disables the audio processing.

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/does-denon-direct-39rlBF67SJW.Rlr5nEBaxg

WL playback means the likes of Wiim mini, pro & pro+. I am not sure how much SQ improvement it will provide to my AVR (Denon X2600h)

I have almost planned for a stereo setup with MA Silver 50 + Yamaha N600A network amp ( music playback will be done through their app musiccast) but I am going to take the auditions of MA with marantz as well as denon to compare with Yamaha. I always liked Yamaha in music as previously used Yamaha’s AVR.

 

[reignofchaos]

Doesn't the pure direct or whatever mode disable all DSP processing?

 

[arj]

Doesn't the pure direct or whatever mode disable all DSP processing?

yes. at least in my old AVR if you gave a analogue input it only played via the amp section and there was no conversion to digital.

I was not aware that AVRs also have a ADC inbuilt.,

 

[mbhangui]

I was not aware that AVRs also have a ADC inbuilt.,

All avr's do some kind of DSP using these ADCs in order to do DSP on the input sound. E.g. Yamaha has its Cinema DSP, Cinema DSP 3D. In Yamaha AVRs you can also choose different sound programs based on acoustic of concert halls. E.g. "Hall in Munich", "Hall in Vienna", "Chamber Music" for a room with heigh ceiling. "Cellar Club" for an intimate concert venue with low ceiling, "Roxy Theater" for 460-seat rock music concert venue in Los Angeles. Many a times I prefer the DSPeed sound because it brings in separation of instruments, enlarges the sound stage and makes the music lively. That's me, but there is Pure Direct for purists. I have opened my avr and played a lot with the insides. You press the switch, it cuts of the power to the HDMI board, the digital display goes off, all dc to dc converters get shut down. Just the unregulated power supply and the dual amps get power

 

[arj]

All avr's do some kind of DSP using these ADCs in order to do DSP on the input sound. E.g. Yamaha has its Cinema DSP, Cinema DSP 3D. In Yamaha AVRs you can also choose different sound programs based on acoustic of concert halls. E.g. "Hall in Munich", "Hall in Vienna", "Chamber Music" for a room with heigh ceiling. "Cellar Club" for an intimate concert venue with low ceiling, "Roxy Theater" for 460-seat rock music concert venue in Los Angeles. Many a times I prefer the DSPeed sound because it brings in separation of instruments, enlarges the sound stage and makes the music lively. That's me, but there is Pure Direct for purists. I have opened my avr and played a lot with the insides. You press the switch, it cuts of the power to the HDMI board, the digital display goes off, all dc to dc converters get shut down. Just the unregulated power supply and the dual amps get power

the onkyo I had did not have any DSP if it was analogue ..only for digital . if given analogue in it did only 2 channel audio ..at least from my memory !

 

[fLUX]

Even phono in has dsp applied, tried it on my Denon x4500h. Pure direct is the only way to bypass the processing applied ( the processing here is not just eq, it has the speaker distance and levels set & that also has an impact).

I guess you are right on the internal dac not being bypassed , remember reading that a2d will always happen in the Denon regardless & then it will decide on the corrections to be applied on digital domain based on the filters ( stereo , pure direct etc).

Adding a WiiM pro or other streamer might not be beneficial as the inbuilt streamer of Denon (HEOS) does a similar function and is quite decent. It will benefit you for your dedicated stereo setup when you plan for the same

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

My like was for details on sambar. This confirms that Sambhar section of our brains match because with whatever experience I have, none could better the sambhar from Sarvana Bhavan, Chennai .

Of the plethora of Saravana Bhavans Ive tried, the one on the Salem to Karur road is absolutely the best. We used to drive from Karur early morning for 2 hrs just for the breakfast

 

[Analogous]

All avr's do some kind of DSP using these ADCs in order to do DSP on the input sound. E.g. Yamaha has its Cinema DSP, Cinema DSP 3D. In Yamaha AVRs you can also choose different sound programs based on acoustic of concert halls. E.g. "Hall in Munich", "Hall in Vienna", "Chamber Music" for a room with heigh ceiling. "Cellar Club" for an intimate concert venue with low ceiling, "Roxy Theater" for 460-seat rock music concert venue in Los Angeles. Many a times I prefer the DSPeed sound because it brings in separation of instruments, enlarges the sound stage and makes the music lively. That's me, but there is Pure Direct for purists. I have opened my avr and played a lot with the insides. You press the switch, it cuts of the power to the HDMI board, the digital display goes off, all dc to dc converters get shut down. Just the unregulated power supply and the dual amps get power

Audiotrickery?

 

[hifimaddy]

Of the plethora of Saravana Bhavans Ive tried, the one on the Salem to Karur road is absolutely the best. We used to drive from Karur early morning for 2 hrs just for the breakfast

 

[arj]

Even phono in has dsp applied, tried it on my Denon x4500h. Pure direct is the only way to bypass the processing applied ( the processing here is not just eq, it has the speaker distance and levels set & that also has an impact).

I guess you are right on the internal dac not being bypassed , remember reading that a2d will always happen in the Denon regardless & then it will decide on the corrections to be applied on digital domain based on the filters ( stereo , pure direct etc).

Adding a WiiM pro or other streamer might not be beneficial as the inbuilt streamer of Denon (HEOS) does a similar function and is quite decent. It will benefit you for your dedicated stereo setup when you plan for the same

Thanks for this. In this case i take my point on the DAC back.

AVRs have changed a lot since I have used one !!

 

[mbhangui]

Audiotrickery?

Stereo is itself audiotrickery. There seems to be some science involved here. Also the DSP is purely adjusting the time delay and sound output and zero adjustments with frequency response (except for the sending low frequency output through the LFE output jack). The easy way to configure these AVRS is by connecting the mic to the mic input and run calibration program (YPAO in Yamaha and Audyssey. DIRAC for others). The the avr emits some kind of funny sounds from each speaker and calculates the time taken for the sound to arive at the mic and also the sound level. Now there is an advanced configuration tab (which most users aren't aware or have never touched them). The configuration allows delay in milli seconds for each speaker in the surround system and the sound output in dB. Increase the delay to increase the room size (length, width, ceiling height, etc). So yes there is some level of audiotrickery happening here by adjusting the delay by which sound gets output from the surroud speakers compared to the L and R speakers. My head spins thinking about this. Too complicated for me to understand, especially the few milliseconds involved in the DSP.

 

[spirovious]

Regarding AVR conversation, it was discussed in forum somewhere that with Pure direct on, ADC is not done as volume control chip doesn't need it.