What gorgeous finish, almost lick-able like a dark and sinful chocolate.
TT for beginner - Need advice
- Thread starter AMITNOIDA
- Start date
What gorgeous finish, almost lick-able like a dark and sinful chocolate.
Very interesting posts, Dr.Bass.
Two things to learn/confirm for me.
1. You say the table itself contributes about 70%. From what I have been given to understand from all my studies, this is about right. When I was discussing my recent purchase with prem and arj, I think it was prem who perhaps suggested not to worry too much about the arm initially. Of course, the arm is important, but perhaps I could take that up on the next level of improvement. But both of them stressed quite a lot on the cart and phonostage matching, this is something I also knew (only theoretically though).
2. I know that my Super OM 30 is quite a bit more detailed, more musical with better frequency extremes than the 2M Red (which is definitely a good cart for the price). Now you are saying that the 2M Blue is a bit bright and cold sounding. What were the table and the rest of the system you were listening to the Blue in? I know a few people including Amit who are interested in that cart, so this may be a fruitful discussion. I have heard similar things about the Bronze. Of course the Black is in a different league, so I have heard. Have you listened to it?
Regards.
Two things to learn/confirm for me.
1. You say the table itself contributes about 70%. From what I have been given to understand from all my studies, this is about right. When I was discussing my recent purchase with prem and arj, I think it was prem who perhaps suggested not to worry too much about the arm initially. Of course, the arm is important, but perhaps I could take that up on the next level of improvement. But both of them stressed quite a lot on the cart and phonostage matching, this is something I also knew (only theoretically though).
2. I know that my Super OM 30 is quite a bit more detailed, more musical with better frequency extremes than the 2M Red (which is definitely a good cart for the price). Now you are saying that the 2M Blue is a bit bright and cold sounding. What were the table and the rest of the system you were listening to the Blue in? I know a few people including Amit who are interested in that cart, so this may be a fruitful discussion. I have heard similar things about the Bronze. Of course the Black is in a different league, so I have heard. Have you listened to it?
Regards.
anm
Well-Known Member
hi Dr Bass. Hope you are doing well in the chocolate factory, errr, I mean s'pore. So how does delivery/ customs happen if one buys a TT from there?
So you guys are having fun in my absence
Amit, here are some things I learnt recently (learnt as in by listening), may help you:
1. Ortofon 2M Blue is a relatively cold and a tad bright sounding cartridge. I will not consider it musical unless the table you buy is too warm and sweet by itself. 2M red is good VFM, musical but not very detailed. But if you buy a TT which is detailed then you will not miss much with the 2M Red.
2. Other than Scheu the TTs to buy is either the VPI classic or the ArtisanFidelity Modified Thorens 125 MK2 Thorens TD125 Master Heirloom
I have heard many Thorens here and I can safely say it is one of the most musical TT for the money. It gets the tone, body and PRAT so right that you would forget your equipments within the first 10 secs and listen to music. BTW, there is a slightly used Thorens TD-350 with Rega RB700 arm and Ortofon 2M Red going for sale here in Singapore. I have personally heard the setup 3-4 times. Very good setup. The guy is expecting about SGD 3k. Let me know if I can help here. But if you want to buy new (refurbished), nothing like a ArtisanFidelity Thorens 125 or a VPI Classic.
All the details, refinement you are looking for can be had by just upgrading the cartridge with any of these TTs and a decent tonearm. All you need to do is wait for your favourite high end cartirdge to appear on Audiogon. Look for something that is less than 200 hours used. You get fantastic deals because cartridge is the most often upgraded accessory. As of now if you could get a Denon DL-103R you can forget cartridge upgrade for 2-3 years at least.
iTo buy an MM which is detailed you are anyway looking at $500+. A Denon for $300 will absolutely kill any of the carts under $500 and beat most carts within $2k for sheer musicality. Hope this helps.
Thanks Dr. Bass for your post and suggestion to a starter. Among the TTs I have heard in last 2-3 months, I found Lenco is one of the very good TTs. With correct tonearm (e.g. Thomas Schick 12") and good heavy cart it will be a marvellous posession.
My shortcoming is that I don't have any hands-on experience of TTs and that's why I am shy to purchase an used TT. Although, without a car how one can learn driving! My thinking is first to get a good Turntable, which can take good arm like Thomas Schick 12". Somehow I have developed a dream about Thomas Schick arm.
I am thinking for Scheu Premier MK-II with 12" arm board. But I am stuck with the arm. I don't like to start with an unipivot arm due to their finicky mounting and fear of falling. I have seen in Thomas Schihk website that Thomas Schick 12" tonearm is fixed on Scheu Laufwerk TT with Mopane wood armbase and snakewood headshell - very nice and addictive looking.
Your info regarding Thoren 350 may be a good option. But after listening to the new Thoren TD309 I somehow could not develop good opinion about the newer generation Thorens. Thoren 350 may be good as this is their second best top end model.
You have suggested VPI Classic as one worth considering option. No doubt, VPI Classic is very well engineered TT with very good floating unipivot arm. And most important, this TT can be set once and can go without any further tweaking / adjustment. For a starter, it is definitely an advantage. But how it performs on musicality compared to Lenco, Thoren(old) or Scheu Premier? If you can give your opinion.
Next important is cart and phonostage combo. Here, the opportunity of audition is very limited in India. So far I could hear Ortofon OM 5E, Ortofon 2M Red, Ortofon Super OM 30 from Ortofon stable. All are MM carts. Ortofon 2M Red is VFM and barring deficiency in detailing it is a very good musical cart. Regrading 2M Blue, Asit requested the info about the table you listened. I didn't have any idea that 2M Blue is bright and cold sounding.
Have you listened Denon DL-103 or DL-103R? I wish I could hear them. Dl-103 is reported to be very musical cart but its top end reproduction is somewhat limiting, as read in the review.
Regarding phonostage, which models you could hear at Singapore? May post your impressions about them and suggest few good cart + phono combo.
I am a person, who loves details but can not withstand bright sound. It requires lot of careful balancing to achieve that. Here, suggestions from experienced person comes as great help.
Regards
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Hello Asit,
I heard the 2M Blue on a Nottingham Analogue Interspace TT. It is a British made TT with British sound, meaning bouncy, agile and energetic. Tonally more or less neutral.
Till now I have heard 2M Red, 2M blue, Rhondo Red and Cadenza Bronze from Ortofon stable. I kind of know how Ortofon sounds and also like their sound. Typically an Ortofon sounds clean, tonally accurate, low groove noise and musical...not very hifi but still hifi.
The general philosophy with all Ortofon series is:
Red - Forgiving and musical
Blue - Most detailed
Bronze - Warm and smooth
Black - Tries to achieve best of all worlds. All rounder that is.
I have not heard any Black though.
Hi Amitnoida
You could look at a brand new Technics SL1200 completely modded by ZU with a Rega 700 tonearm and a Zu Denon DL 103. It will set you back by about $4000. This combo should give you what you are looking for
You could look at a brand new Technics SL1200 completely modded by ZU with a Rega 700 tonearm and a Zu Denon DL 103. It will set you back by about $4000. This combo should give you what you are looking for
Hi Dr Bass
Really nice to have a member in Singapore who can give us feedback on a lot of the available stuff. Our forum badly needed this.
BTW have you finalised your table? Have you heard the Avid or the Brinkmann Bardo? They should be up your alley. The Well Tempered Reference should also be very good.
Really nice to have a member in Singapore who can give us feedback on a lot of the available stuff. Our forum badly needed this.
BTW have you finalised your table? Have you heard the Avid or the Brinkmann Bardo? They should be up your alley. The Well Tempered Reference should also be very good.
TT - Scheu, VPI and Thorens
All of them are good and musical. But they also sound different. Scheu is the perfect example of well built modern sounding detailed TT. Thorens has the classic TT sound. VPI I have not auditioned but it is somewhere in between. Some people who have heard the VPI and Thorens tell me that VPI is a little cooler, leaner but a little more detailed than a Thorens.
Tonearm - Schick, Scheu Classic 12", Jelco 750L 12"
Again all of them very good. You cannot go wrong with any of them. My suggestion though is to get the best Table within your budget and use a Rega RB300 arm. This is purely based on musicality grounds. Rega RB700 is the sweet spot though. You can upgrade to the Schick as time and funds permit. Anyway there is a waiting period of 5 month for Schick arm.
Cartridge - I am all for Denon DL-103R or even better DL-103PRO. Ortofon 2M are great to start with but you will need an upgrade sooner or later. If you buy a VPI or Thorens then the cartridge to buy is a ZYX R50, fast, rhythmic and spicy.
Phonostage - Trigon, Nighthawk, Blackcube are all very good VFM. If you want to buy one of the best phonostages for a bargain price, here it is:
Zyx Artisan Phono Stage - Black with For Sale | AudiogoN
You can bargain it down to $1500 including shipping.
And here is a cartridge deal:
Zyx R -1000 airy 2 x sb lomc For Sale | AudiogoN
Where will you start
hyeah:
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Have heard the Avid Acutus and Well Tempered Ref. Liked the Avid a lot. I am only listening around for you folks, not really buying anything:lol:.
Hi Dr Bass
Sitting in Singapore, you can listen to everything you want and take your time in finalising. BTW try and also listen to Dr Feickert Woodpecker. Good stuff.
Personally i would go with Jasmine Audio over Lehman Black Cube and Nighthawk. Have not heard Trigon
Sitting in Singapore, you can listen to everything you want and take your time in finalising. BTW try and also listen to Dr Feickert Woodpecker. Good stuff.
Personally i would go with Jasmine Audio over Lehman Black Cube and Nighthawk. Have not heard Trigon
Is there any such set available on sale?
Great to see the Jasmine back in discussion. Well, someone we all know have been to Singapore recently, but there was no trace of Jasmine there.
I could not audition the Trigon. It was sent to me me for free audition, but met with some problems at the ST office here and was sent back to BLR directly.
I heard the Nighthawk in my system. Obviously it was a lot better almost in all departments than my budget phono. The bass became very tuneful, the whole presentation became smoother, accompanying instruments with vocals had a better identity and a bit of sparkle about them. But the whole thing was a bit too soft for me. Ideally I'd want a bit more impact which my Scheu is producing I think.
Wanting to explore the Jasmine seriously. I know a good phono will take my listening experience to the next level, with the existing set-up. However, I have the following problems:
1) Do not really know where to source a Jasmine from? Directly from the company? Have you heard it, prem?
2) The Jasmine has fixed gain of 55 db (MM) and 70 db (MC). Now my MM cart has 4 mV output. So it will produce about 2.3 V at the input of my amp which has 600 mV as the input sensitivity. Is this too much of a gain for my amp? Do I lose all control over the volume knob of my amp? I need to audition the Jasmine in my system to know. But there is none around. I have discussed this problem in detail in my phono pre thread: http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/18958-phono-pre-suggestion-4.html#post291169.
Can anybody help with my problems?
Regards.
Hi Asit
I was planning to buy directly from Jasmine Audio. I have not heard the Jasmine phono stage but i have a few friends whose ears i trust. They have heard it and have had very good things to say about it. So i was going to buy blind. I think it costs about $600.
Why dont yo write to them and clear all your doubts?
I was planning to buy directly from Jasmine Audio. I have not heard the Jasmine phono stage but i have a few friends whose ears i trust. They have heard it and have had very good things to say about it. So i was going to buy blind. I think it costs about $600.
Why dont yo write to them and clear all your doubts?
Heard the Dr.Feickert as well. Good but a bit unexciting for my taste. Lacked PRAT basically.
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