When will we get good quality uninterrupted power supply in our country?

[Nitin K]

So, apart from installing safeguards in our homes we are giving up on demanding reliable and clean supply from the provider?

I still hope the system can and will improve. It’s just that they have never been challenged to do better. The salaried bureaucrats wait for elected politicians to order and resource necessary changes.

Maybe it’s not a priority for some consumers, but if a large enough group requests….we have after all witnessed the effectiveness of mobs in other aspects of life over the past two decades. For elected politicians to act, It’s all down to voter numbers demanding this.

Possible only when there are honest companies providing and governing public bodies overseeing essential utilities here which seems a distant possibility.
Till then we have to live with whatever substandard stuff is dished out.

It is an irony that after decades of development, the basics are not in place.
For most the basics are more important than sending men on the moon or probes on mars which is secondary.

 

[mbhangui]

Is this true?
How does it help the supplier make more money?

For both of you @Analogous and @sachinchavan 15865

Yes. This is true. Let me explain. This is ohms law. I will explain by using figures from my electricity bill as example and will show you that I'm paying Rs 2712 every month to Madani and Co and power distribution companies for free. Roughly 18% by increasing the voltage by 8%. This is because power is square of current or voltage in the equation.

The resistance of any material is

R = V/I

Hence V = R * I

When current flows the power consumed is

P = V * I

Hence if you substitute V into the above equation

P = I * I * R
or
P = (V * V) / R

Now read this screenshot and then I will explain how much your bill will inflate if you change the voltage from 230 to 250 v (basically how much more you will giving Madani or the Tatas for free)



Now let say your your total energy consumption in a month is 540 units. This means you are consuming 18 units per day.

Now 18 units is 18 * 1000 watts used for one hour.

Now let us say 18000 watts has been consumed throughout the day. So average consumption is 18000/24 = 750 watts per hour. Now by ohms law

750 = 230 * I

Hence current flow = 750 / 230 = 3.26 amps

Now let us increase the voltage to 250 volts. This will mean current will become

(250 * 3.26) / 230 = 3.54

So power consumption will now become per hour will become

250 * 3.54 = 885 watts

Earlier it was 750 watts

This will translate to (885 * 24 * 30) / 1000 = 637.20

I paid Rs 15070 for 540 units. Now I will be paying Adani 15070 * 637.20 / 540 = 17782.31.

So money that Madani will put in his left or right pocket to bribe officials to give him more power projects will be Rs 2712.00 per customer per month. Roughly 18% by increasing the voltage by 8%.

17782.31 - 15069.76 = 2712.55

 

[Analogous]

In a free market economy or even a semi free market economy like ours the fashionable trend is to privatise government owned and managed services. The argument is that these are managed dismally with poor quality of services and the private sector can and will do better. Privatisation has evidently brought along favoritism, corruption and what’s called “crony capitalism”
I feel empowering and supporting government bureaucrats and technical staff do a better job needs to be done first. The politicians heading the sector should hear from their voters and everyone else to provide this support and management for the staff to do their jobs well. I guess that’s where we and our actions come in.

 

[Analogous]

For both of you @Analogous and @sachinchavan 15865

Yes. This is true. Let me explain. This is ohms law. I will explain by using figures from my electricity bill as example and will show you that I'm paying Rs 1731 every month to Madani and Co and power distribution companies for free.

The resistance of any material is

R = V/I

Hence V = R * I

When current flows the power consumed is

P = V * I

Hence if you substitute V into the above equation

P = I * I * R
or
P = (V * V) / R

Now read this screenshot and then I will explain how much your bill will inflate if you change the voltage from 230 to 250 v (basically how much more you will giving Adani or the Tatas for free)

View attachment 88024

Now let say your your total energy consumption in a month is 540 units. This means you are consuming 18 units per day.

Now 18 units is 18 * 1000 watts used for one hour.

Now let us say 18000 watts has been consumed throughout the day. So average consumption is 18000/24 = 750 watts per hour. Now by ohms law

750 = 230 * I

Hence current flow = 750 / 230 = 3.26 amps

Now let us increase the voltage to 250 volts. This will mean current will become

(250 * 3.26) / 230 = 3.54

So power consumption will now become per hour will become

250 * 3.54 = 885 watts

Earlier it was 750 watts

This will translate to (885 * 24 * 30) / 1000 = 637.20

I paid Rs 9620 for 540 units. Now I will be paying Adani 9620 * 637.20 / 540 = 11351.60.

So money that Madani will put in his left or right pocket to bribe officials to give him more power projects will be Rs 1731.00 per customer per month.

11351 - 9620 = 1731

This makes sense now. Thank you @mbhangui . Wonder why this serious issue has not been highlighted before

 

[mbhangui]

In a free market economy or even a semi free market economy like ours the fashionable trend is to privatise government owned and managed services. The argument is that these are managed dismally with poor quality of services and the private sector can and will do better. Privatisation has evidently brought along favoritism, corruption and what’s called “crony capitalism”
I feel empowering and supporting government bureaucrats and technical staff do a better job needs to be done first. The politicians heading the sector should hear from their voters and everyone else to provide this support and management for the staff to do their jobs well. I guess that’s where we and our actions come in.

Privatization is being done so that the illegal money flows to the politicians though the private player. The politician keeps his/her hands clean. The private player takes the flak for corruption, but in reality he is the guy who is funding the politician. It should come as no surprise why the private players are operating with impunity, regardless of the govt we choose.

 

[mbhangui]

Is this true?
How does it help the supplier make more money?

A very simple way to explain this without using ohms law

Let us say you require 4 chappatis a day to sustain you so that you have enough power to carry out all your tasks. Instead of 4 chappatis you are suddenly fed 6 chappatis a day. Will that increase your productivity?

So by increasing the voltage, you are being forcefully fed few more chappatis a day which gets wasted next day morning. But the chappati maker is happy as his sale has increased. The extra chappatis he sells helps fund his chappati making units throughout the country. Soon his ambition increases and now he starts making chappatis in Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal and other countries.

 

[Analogous]

A very simple way to explain this without using ohms law

Let us say you require 4 chappatis a day to sustain you so that you have enough power to carry out all your tasks. Instead of 4 chappatis you are suddenly fed 6 chappatis a day. Will that increase your productivity?

So by increasing the voltage, you are being forcefully fed few more chappatis a day which gets wasted next day morning. But the chappati maker is happy as his sale has increased. The extra chappatis he sells helps fund his chappati making units throughout the country. Soon his ambition increases and now he starts making chappatis in Bangladesh, Nepal and other countries.

And the Government has allowed him to supply electricity at 240v?

 

[mbhangui]

And the Government has allowed him to supply electricity at 240v?

Why do you think that the IEC rules where changed in 2010 from 230 +- 5% to 240 +- 10%

 

[Analogous]

A basic clarification ?
Voltage and current are in an inversely proportional relationship according to my memory of ohms law. (V=IxR)
So when voltage increases, current will decrease?
P = V*I
I = P/V = 750/250 = 3 A.

 

[mbhangui]

A basic clarification ?
Voltage and current are in an inversely proportional relationship according to my memory of ohms law. (V=IxR)
So when voltage increases, current will decrease?
P = V*I
I = P/V = 750/250 = 3 A.

That will happen when 750 watts will be consumed when voltage is 250v. What I'm showing is when your voltage is 230v and the power consumption is 750 watts, what will be the current flow. It will be 3.26 Amps. Now if you increase the voltage from 230v to 250v, your current will increase proportionally and power consumption will become 885 watts. So net effect of changing the voltage from 230v to 250v will result in increase by 135 watts. This 135 watts is the extra chappati that I explained earlier.

 

[Analogous]

Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding.

If I have an amplifier rated for 200watts, irrespective of the voltage, it will consume only 200watts max.
Energy is power x time. If i operate the amplifier for 2 hours, I consume 200*2 = 400 watt-hour ( or 0.4 kilowatt hour)

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

For both of you @Analogous and @sachinchavan 15865

Yes. This is true. Let me explain. This is ohms law. I will explain by using figures from my electricity bill as example and will show you that I'm paying Rs 2712 every month to Madani and Co and power distribution companies for free. Roughly 18% by increasing the voltage by 8%. This is because power is square of current or voltage in the equation.

The resistance of any material is

R = V/I

Hence V = R * I

When current flows the power consumed is

P = V * I

Hence if you substitute V into the above equation

P = I * I * R
or
P = (V * V) / R

Now read this screenshot and then I will explain how much your bill will inflate if you change the voltage from 230 to 250 v (basically how much more you will giving Madani or the Tatas for free)

View attachment 88024

Now let say your your total energy consumption in a month is 540 units. This means you are consuming 18 units per day.

Now 18 units is 18 * 1000 watts used for one hour.

Now let us say 18000 watts has been consumed throughout the day. So average consumption is 18000/24 = 750 watts per hour. Now by ohms law

750 = 230 * I

Hence current flow = 750 / 230 = 3.26 amps

Now let us increase the voltage to 250 volts. This will mean current will become

(250 * 3.26) / 230 = 3.54

So power consumption will now become per hour will become

250 * 3.54 = 885 watts

Earlier it was 750 watts

This will translate to (885 * 24 * 30) / 1000 = 637.20

I paid Rs 15070 for 540 units. Now I will be paying Adani 15070 * 637.20 / 540 = 17782.31.

So money that Madani will put in his left or right pocket to bribe officials to give him more power projects will be Rs 2712.00 per customer per month. Roughly 18% by increasing the voltage by 8%.

17782.31 - 15069.76 = 2712.55

I do not want to speculate on intentions or motivations. That is probably not even the purpose/scope of this forum. I want to only understand the calculations in the hypothetical case of voltage rise (due to any reason) and impact on power cost from a technical point of view.

So, because power is directly proportional to resistance but proportional to square of the current, a 10% increase in current (presumably due to 10% rise in the voltage) increases the power not by 10%, but by 21%. That’s Physics 101 and the math. It’s clear.

My question is, will an equipment necessarily draw 10% more current if there’s 10% increase in the voltage? Is that true for all kinds of loads?

 

[mbhangui]

So, because power is directly proportional to resistance but proportional to square of the current, say a 10% times current (due to 10% increase in the voltage ) increases the power not by 10%, but by 21%. That’s Physics 101 and the math.

My question is, will an equipment necessarily draw 10% more current if there’s 10% increase in the voltage? Is that true or all kinds of loads?

Equipments like geyser, heater, motor, etc will draw 10% more current. SMPS is the one device which will now switch lesser and will not consume more. LPS will also consume more but will throw away the extra power as heat. Bulbs will shine brighter and longetivity will be reduced.

 

[mbhangui]

Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding.

If I have an amplifier rated for 200watts, irrespective of the voltage, it will consume only 200watts max.
Energy is power x time. If i operate the amplifier for 2 hours, I consume 200*2 = 400 watt-hour ( or 0.4 kilowatt hour)

If you amp has an LPS it will start throwing the extra power fed to it as heat. Check what is written where the power cord is entering the amp. Check the max voltage written. That 200 watts will be at that max voltage. Above the max voltage your amp will start consuming/producing more than 200 watts (this is assuming the power supply inside is not a LPS).

This is the reason why operating electronic equipment above the max voltage written near the power cord is dangerous. Your equipment will start consuming more power and hence more heat will be generated. This can often lead to failure of components. If it is powered by SMPS then no issue. The SMPS will regulate the voltage. Similary if it is powered by LPS, then the LPS will regulate the voltage. But LPS will start throwing extra power as heat and this too above the max rated voltage can fail. SMPS too can fail if the flyback converter IC is operated beyond the max rated voltage.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Equipments like geyser, heater, motor, etc will draw 10% more current. SMPS is the one device which will now switch lesser and will not consume more. LPS will also consume more but will throw away the extra power as heat. Bulbs will shine brighter and longetivity will be reduced.

Thank you. So, is there a way to get SMPS installed for the resistive loads?

Also, will the extra power drawn necessarily result in higher power bill? For example, if a water heater draws more power, won’t it heat the water in relatively shorter time and then switch off the heating? Wouldn’t the resultant KWh consumed remain the same? In case of iridescent bulbs I agree the additional heat generated will be wasted as we don’t need more illumination than the rated one.

 

[mbhangui]

Thank you. So, is there a way to get SMPS installed for the resistive loads?

Also, will the extra power drawn necessarily result in higher power bill? For example, if a water heater draws more power, won’t it heat the water in relatively shorter time and then switch off the heating? Wouldn’t the resultant KWh consumed remain the same? In case of iridescent bulbs I agree the additional heat generated will be wasted as we don’t need more illumination than the rated one.

It will be cheaper to install a voltage stabilizer. That way you will reduce the voltage and not pay extra to the power distribution company

 

[Analogous]

I do not want to speculate on intentions or motivations. That is probably not even the purpose/scope of this forum. I want to only understand the calculations in the hypothetical case of voltage rise (due to any reason) and impact on power cost from a technical point of view.

So, because power is directly proportional to resistance but proportional to square of the current, a 10% increase in current (presumably due to 10% rise in the voltage) increases the power not by 10%, but by 21%. That’s Physics 101 and the math. It’s clear.

My question is, will an equipment necessarily draw 10% more current if there’s 10% increase in the voltage? Is that true for all kinds of loads?

Still struggling to understand the physics
Electric power is the rate of transfer of electrical energy within a circuit. Its SI unit is the watt, (Wikipedia) It is the rate of doing work using electricity.
Then we have the ohms law. Where voltage and current are inversely proportional relationship an inverse relationship. (When Voltage increases current will decrease, Resistance remaining constant)

 

[firearm12]

Is this true?
How does it help the supplier make more money?

It depends on the load. Power = Voltage x Current basically and if load is not regulated (can't control the amount of current), power drawn will be higher when voltage is higher

 

[Analogous]

It depends on the load. Power = Voltage x Current basically and if load is not regulated (can't control the amount of current), power drawn will be higher when voltage is higher

But, increasing the load is up to us.
Assuming that we have the same number of appliances (load) in use when electricity was supplied at 230V as also when the supply was increased to 240V. How will this impact electricity consumption and hence the cost paid by the consumer?
A kilowatt-hour is the unit of electricity; billing is done on kilowatt-hour basis (after some fixed charge) used by our electrical equipment to perform mechanical work or lighting.

 

[mbhangui]

Because power is directly proportional to resistance but proportional to square of the current, a 10% increase in current (presumably due to 10% rise in the voltage) increases the power not by 10%, but by 21%. That’s Physics 101 and the math. It’s clear.

Yes. If you double the voltage you will quadruple your bill assuming your load is resistive