When will we get good quality uninterrupted power supply in our country?

[mbhangui]

But, increasing the load is up to us.

Yes. But the same load starts drawing more current when you increase the voltage. By load I mean the resistance of the load. Remember that Power is not a constant, it is the resistance that is constant

 

[firearm12]

But, increasing the load is up to us.
Assuming that we have the same number of appliances in use when electricity was supplied at 230V as also when the supply was increased to 240V. How will this impact electricity consumption and hence the cost paid by the consumer?
A kilowatt-hour is the unit of electricity; billing is done on kilowatt-hour basis (after some fixed charge) used by our electrical equipment to perform mechanical work or lighting.

It's simple. Let's say you have a incandescent bulb. It will shine less when voltage is low that means it's consuming less power and less less w/hr as compared to full brightness.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Still struggling to understand the physics
Electric power is the rate of transfer of electrical energy within a circuit. Its SI unit is the watt, (Wikipedia) It is the rate of doing work using electricity.
Then we have the ohms law. Where voltage and current are inversely proportional relationship an inverse relationship. (When Voltage increases current will decrease, Resistance remaining constant)

Oh no! It’s V= IR. It’s the resistance that stays constant for an equipment as it is a function of its design and construction. Hence, theoretically current (I) increases proportionately to voltage (except as explained by Manavendra, where SMPS or LPS is used).

And then, P = I²R. Therefore the increase in power will be be proportional to the square of the increase in current (or the voltage).

But, increasing the load is up to us.
Assuming that we have the same number of appliances (load) in use when electricity was supplied at 230V as also when the supply was increased to 240V. How will this impact electricity consumption and hence the cost paid by the consumer?
A kilowatt-hour is the unit of electricity; billing is done on kilowatt-hour basis (after some fixed charge) used by our electrical equipment to perform mechanical work or lighting.

As Manavendra explained above, the excess power drawn will either overpower the appliance (fan running faster for example or heater heating faster) or waste the excess power as unwanted heat produced (example in an amplifier).

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

It will be cheaper to install a voltage stabilizer. That way you will reduce the voltage and not pay extra to the power distribution company

How much is the power consumption by the stabiliser itself due to conduction and switching losses of its transistors? Is it significantly less than the power saved by rectifying the voltage?

 

[mbhangui]

How much is the power consumption by the stabiliser itself due to conduction and switching losses of its transistors? Is it significantly less than the power saved by rectifying the voltage?

Transfomers have copper, hysteresis, eddy, iron, stray & dielectric loses. These will be around 1 to 2% of the output. Transformers rank amongst the most efficient of electrical apparatus. In a standard transformer, full-load efficiency is generally between 96-99%. By reducing the voltage you will still save money by reducing the voltage and hence current. Additional benefit of the stabilizer is you are not allowing unsafe voltage to your equipments.

 

[Analogous]

But the same load starts drawing more current when you increase the voltage.

This is the part I am not getting.
Is it possible that there is more than ohms law that applies here ? (Conductance, impedance and such?)

 

[mbhangui]

This is the part I am not getting.
Is it possible that there is more than ohms law that applies here ? (Conductance, impedance and such?)

I = V/R

Here R is constant. You increase the Voltage, you will increase the current.

Now power consumed is I * I * R (I square R). By increasing the voltage the current increases and power consumptions jumps drastically as can be seen in the equation. So If you double the voltage, you will double the current draw. Now 2 * 2 is 4. Hence doubling the voltage results in quadrupling the power.

 

[Analogous]

So, With more voltage, a traditional bulb will burn brighter. And that additional energy is coming from modani's power plants. And the users pay for whatever energy is drawn.?

(In a nutshell)

 

[mbhangui]

So, With more voltage, a traditional bulb will burn brighter. And that additional energy is coming from modani's power plants. And the users pay for whatever energy is drawn.?

(In a nutshell)

Yes. Perfect. You have understood it correctly.

 

[Analogous]

Yes. Perfect. You have understood it correctly.

The brighter light has revealed the truth

 

[Analogous]

Would the 10v increase in millions of homes add up to significant savings from reduced transmission loss?

 

[mbhangui]

Would the 10v increase in millions of homes add up to significant savings from reduced transmission loss?

Yes. Transmission loss for the Power generation company reduces by increasing the voltage. For the Power generator, power is constant. When they increase the voltage the current reduces. Hence I * I * R loss reduces. This increases the profit on two counts.

1. The transmission loss reduces
2. The customer starts consuming more

You know how sinister this looks!!! Right?

But in the lala land all is well. We are now a chappati surplus nation, the sheeps are singing, while their master is fleecing their wool over their eyes

 

[CKumar]

But in the lala land all is well. We are now a chappati surplus nation, the sheeps are singing, while their master is fleecing their wool over their eyes

Just like The night light robbery
All happening in-front of our eyes

 

[suku_patel_22]

When people start paying fair prices, and stol stealing electricity, bypassing meters and such.

Here in Mumbai, prices are high and we get 24*7 power with hardly any powercut.

 

[arnprasad]

Dunno about Mumbai folks as they have had the best power situation forever...having spent most of my time in Hyd and BLR..last 15 yrs in BLR, I can say that power situation has vastly improved. Earlier whenever it used to rain, we had power cuts..now even during heavy rains..unless some branches fall on power cables...we dont have power cuts. I do get voltage over 250 when my solar inverter shuts down..but its few and far between. of course I dont have hifi equipment costing lakhs which might detect such small voltage changes...

for both ground floor and first floor I have an UPS each and am hoping it will trip during high voltage and save my equipment. Not sure if it really does that..so far nothing got fried in my 15 years in BLR

Of course weather is bloody depressing here..been raining since July..spent 4.5 lacs installing a 6KW rooftop solar which got commissioned in Feb. initially it wasnt generating much and I thought something was faulty with the installation....then after it rained few times...the generation increased..so it was more of a dust issue since my commissioning took one year post installation. After that, copius rains have cleaned my panels pretty well..but havent seen much sunshine since July...raining even now as I type. I am a frequent visitor to the himalayas and it seems to rain more in BLR than in himalayas..very bad

 

[surfatwork]

Thank you for the enlightening information, @mbhangui . Atleast the maharajahs and emperors of yore had to fight battles and wars. Those today have absolutely no worries. The pic below and the link illustrate the reality of the "largest democracy" in the world

Real Wage Decline Hits Economic Growth, FMCG Sector

According to the Periodic Labour Force Survey data, the average monthly earnings of rural Indian workers dropped to Rs 8,842 in 2023-24, down from Rs 9,107 in 2017-18.

thewire.in

 

[mbhangui]

Thank you for the enlightening information, @mbhangui . Atleast the maharajahs and emperors of yore had to fight battles and wars. Those today have absolutely no worries. The pic below and the link illustrate the reality of the "largest democracy" in the world

Real Wage Decline Hits Economic Growth, FMCG Sector

According to the Periodic Labour Force Survey data, the average monthly earnings of rural Indian workers dropped to Rs 8,842 in 2023-24, down from Rs 9,107 in 2017-18.

thewire.in

 

[Hari Iyer]

The change is huge with the effect passed to the consumers. Now any new equipment thats gets imported into the country have to undergo IS certification to withstand this high voltage. What about equipments manufactured before 2020? Even old stabilizers are now blowing up. In the equipments, it is the power supply units blowing up (SMPS and transformers). My entire society went to the local Electricity board armed with voltage readings throughout the day/night which showed voltages upto 250 volts. The board simply brushed way the complaints saying the voltage is within the range. The new standards were implemented quietly, silently during the covid pandemic. Before the covid voltages never want above 230. I know this because I have voltmeters in my music room since 2014. Few electrical engineers have complained about the 240 +- 10% but they have been disregarded. I too lost few devices, but now I have stabilizers manufactured after the year 2020 and high voltage cut outs throughout my house. Since then I haven't lost a single device due to insane high voltages.

This is the insane voltage in Pune right now in my house being fed to the stabilizer.
View attachment 87995

At my house at Thane, it's 256.5VAC on Sunday night after 11pm. Cool It boss, no equipment ay my home has failed yet at such insane voltages. I always listen music at these voltages and all gears are working fine. No harm to other electrical devices either like fridge, fans, lights etc etc.

Imo, the surge voltage is more dangerous than high voltages itself.

 

[Shinto]

For both of you @Analogous and @sachinchavan 15865

Yes. This is true. Let me explain. This is ohms law. I will explain by using figures from my electricity bill as example and will show you that I'm paying Rs 2712 every month to Madani and Co and power distribution companies for free. Roughly 18% by increasing the voltage by 8%. This is because power is square of current or voltage in the equation.

The resistance of any material is

R = V/I

Hence V = R * I

When current flows the power consumed is

P = V * I

Hence if you substitute V into the above equation

P = I * I * R
or
P = (V * V) / R

Now read this screenshot and then I will explain how much your bill will inflate if you change the voltage from 230 to 250 v (basically how much more you will giving Madani or the Tatas for free)

View attachment 88024

Now let say your your total energy consumption in a month is 540 units. This means you are consuming 18 units per day.

Now 18 units is 18 * 1000 watts used for one hour.

Now let us say 18000 watts has been consumed throughout the day. So average consumption is 18000/24 = 750 watts per hour. Now by ohms law

750 = 230 * I

Hence current flow = 750 / 230 = 3.26 amps

Now let us increase the voltage to 250 volts. This will mean current will become

(250 * 3.26) / 230 = 3.54

So power consumption will now become per hour will become

250 * 3.54 = 885 watts

Earlier it was 750 watts

This will translate to (885 * 24 * 30) / 1000 = 637.20

I paid Rs 15070 for 540 units. Now I will be paying Adani 15070 * 637.20 / 540 = 17782.31.

So money that Madani will put in his left or right pocket to bribe officials to give him more power projects will be Rs 2712.00 per customer per month. Roughly 18% by increasing the voltage by 8%.

17782.31 - 15069.76 = 2712.55

Something wrong here.

For a fixed load, the current will reduce when you increase voltage.

750 Watts remains 750 watts (as the load is fixed) even if the supply voltage changes to 250 V from 230 V. so new current @ 250 Volts is 750/250= 3 amps, hence current is reduced.

750 Watts is what the load demands. The system delivers that (P=V*I).Since the voltage is high, lesser current will do the job.

 

[mbhangui]

Something wrong here.

For a fixed load, the current will reduce when you increase voltage.

750 Watts remains 750 watts (as the load is fixed) even if the supply voltage changes to 250 V from 230 V. so new current @ 250 Volts is 750/250= 3 amps, hence current is reduced.

750 Watts is what the load demands. The system delivers that (P=V*I).Since the voltage is high, lesser current will do the job.

A 100 watts bulb made for US homes will generate 100 watts at 110v. The same bulb will consume 200 watts in a Indian home and burn with a big flash of light if connected to 220v.

A 100 watts bulb made for US homes will draw 100/110 = 900 mA current. Which means the resistance of the bulb is V/I = 110/0.9 = 122.22 ohms

Now if you connect the bulb to an Indian Home, the bulb will draw I = V / R = 220/122.22 = 1.8 amps instead of 0.9 amps (double the current)