POWER GAMES:Servo Stabilizer,CVT or Online UPS?

[Thad E Ginathom]

...If HIFI means the pursuit of faithful reproduction then power conditioning is a no no
Providing clean,dedicated power from the pole---distribution box---power sockets---hifi system is ESSENTIAL for a hi fidelity sound...

I think there is a confusion of terms here. Power conditioning usually means exactly what you go on to say... clean power at the right, consistent voltage, frequency, waveform etc etc. People all over the world buy all kinds of boxes, scientific and esoteric, to achieve this for their hifis. Not a market I know much about, but this is power conditioning. Like hair conditioning!

What you are talking about is the various forms of protection that might, for instance, help to prevent your equipment being fried in the case of lightening strike or major surge. This is protection.

OK, there is a grey area covering forms of 'conditioning' such as voltage control, where the method/equipment may not be appropriate to hifi --- but that might be because it is conditioning one aspect whilst not conditioning others?

 

[venkatcr]

My personal view is that Aajay's internal wiring upto the power socket was not up to the mark - it was either too noisy or was not transmitting the correct voltage / energy. SuhasG and I have discussed this detail before. For example, I have completely (re)wired my house with 4 sq.mm Finolex cables. Over ten years ago when I moved in, I also spent money and asked EB to replace the cables that come upto my house.

In the process of looking for power conditioning and cleaning, Ajay seems to have realised that he is not getting proper supply at the sockets themselves.

I am using a Audire Zephyr (2kVa) that does everything except voltage control. I have got this tested for energy at the arrival point. Other than cleaning the power supply and providing surge protection, it does not do anything to the quantum of energy that arrives at the other end. I have seen enormous improvement in both audio and video quality.

Cheers

 

[anm]

In my house in Noida, I can sense fluctuations in the brightness of the light. This is not major, but goes on constantly. Either there is something that is sparking, or the supply itself is faulty.
Finally, I have decided to move back to my own house in faridabad. I would like experts here to visit the house and make suggestions for wiring. For audio as well as general.

 

[venkatcr]

Finally, I have decided to move back to my own house in faridabad. I would like experts here to visit the house and make suggestions for wiring. For audio as well as general.

There is not much to 'visit' and make suggestions. Just take the following steps:

1. Make sure there is proper earthing done. This means digging a 30 feet whole, filling it stages and grades of materials, sinking a earthing rod, and connecting that rod to your mains with a copper plate.

2. Make sure you install proper MCBs for all your phases.

3. Visualize how much power you will need over the next five years and plan for that.

4. Always have a trip which is equal to or less than the max power you envisage you will use fo each set of circuits.

5. Get original power cables from companies such as RR Kable, Finolex, etc. Use 4 sq.mm cables in all internal wirings.

6. Draw separate power cables for you audio room from your mains. Make sure this phase is not connected to heavy machines such as AC, Washing Machine, water motors, etc.

7. In your AV room, use the best quality sockets possible, and use plugs from the same company. If you are using two pin plugs that come with some units, use an adapter that is available from MX.

8. Use a power cleaning system from a reputed company. Make sure this has a capacity of at least 150-200% of you maximum power requirement. Calculate your dynamic power and not stated power at idle time.

9. If you have excessive power fluctuations ( as is possible in Faridabad) use a voltage stabiliser that again has a capacity of 150-200% of max requirements.

10. The stabiliser has to come after the power cleaning system.

Cheers

 

[ajay124]

My personal view is that Aajay's internal wiring upto the power socket was not up to the mark - it was either too noisy or was not transmitting the correct voltage / energy. SuhasG and I have discussed this detail before. For example, I have completely (re)wired my house with 4 sq.mm Finolex cables. Over ten years ago when I moved in, I also spent money and asked EB to replace the cables that come upto my house.

In the process of looking for power conditioning and cleaning, Ajay seems to have realised that he is not getting proper supply at the sockets themselves.

I am using a Audire Zephyr (2kVa) that does everything except voltage control. I have got this tested for energy at the arrival point. Other than cleaning the power supply and providing surge protection, it does not do anything to the quantum of energy that arrives at the other end. I have seen enormous improvement in both audio and video quality.

@venkatcr
You are absolutely correct.
A major discovery for me since I started this thread has been that the internal power supply in my house was both 'noisy' and transmitting inadequate voltage.Laying a fresh external 4 mm line,changing all the sockets,and keeping one phase exclusively for hifi has yeilded phenomenal results in terms of sound quality.
But of course my system is still unprotected.I had managed to convince a couple of dealers for a home audition of an online ups,but finally they never showed up.Also since the power consumption requirements at peak levels for my set up are 2kva,I felt that a 3kva ups,outputting 2.1 kva would be the bare minimum I needed.But I believe that both Emerson and APC 3 kva would
work out to 40K+.That's out of my budget at the moment.I would not want to commit that kind of money without ensuring that putting a ups in the chain would not harm the sound quality in any way.

 

[anm]

Thanks! I will take a print of this.
Builder of the society has done the MCB etc. IIRC the wire used is also of good quality.
30 ft hole - do we need that deep or is it a typo?

There is not much to 'visit' and make suggestions. Just take the following steps:

1. Make sure there is proper earthing done. This mean digging a 30 feet whole, filling it stages and grades of materials, sinking a earthing rod, and connecting that rod to your mains with a copper plate.

 

[borg]

30 ft hole - do we need that deep or is it a typo?

CR4 - Thread: Building an Earth Pit

 

[anm]

oh already feeling overwhelmed. Need to outsource!
I wonder what would people living in flat do! Isn't this level of earthing required by the builder of the apartment? Will a common earthing suffice or should I get it done separately for my house?
FYI - My house is in a recently constructed [2007] closed gate community, where there are lots of flats and row houses.

 

[sidvee]

I am using a Audire Zephyr (2kVa) that does everything except voltage control. Cheers

Hello Venkat - I am looking into buying a power line conditioner for my 220-240v components. What is the MSRP of this unit? and who is contact?
Much appreciated.
Cheers
Sid

 

[arj]

I am using a Audire Zephyr (2kVa) that does everything except voltage control. I have got this tested for energy at the arrival point. Other than cleaning the power supply and providing surge protection, it does not do anything to the quantum of energy that arrives at the other end. I have seen enormous improvement in both audio and video quality.

Cheers

venkat , is there an unfiltered version that only works as a balanced power output ?

 

[venkatcr]

Sidvee and Arj, please contact Sharath or Sundeep at Audire, Precious Jewels That Sing. As per their specs, the Zephyr does the following:

"The audio signals become much cleaner, transient and life like, while the black levels and contrasts in video are enriched. Further features include mains isolation, q transformation, line filtering, balanced power output, high voltage cutoff, spike suppression, and delayed "switch-on" on selected outputs. "

The Zephyr is highly customisable.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

oh already feeling overwhelmed. Need to outsource!
I wonder what would people living in flat do! Isn't this level of earthing required by the builder of the apartment? Will a common earthing suffice or should I get it done separately for my house? FYI - My house is in a recently constructed [2007] closed gate community, where there are lots of flats and row houses.

Every builder has to follow these norms to provide proper earthing. The quality of earthing in flats depends a lot upon the builder himself. I have seen constant tripping in many flats where the wiring has been sub-standard or the earthing has been improper.

In terms of common earthing, IF you are happy the common earthing is good, check the connection between the earthing and your mains. This should be a copper plate that is at least 4-6 mm thick and about 1.5 - 2 inches wide. These are standard plates available at good electrical shops.

I would take the extra effort at this stage so that you can use your AV equipment without any worries. Believe me, after working with many electricians, I have realised it pays to be suspicious and check and cross-check everything yourself. Whenever I do the wiring at home, I purchase all the material myself at a particular shop where I ensure the shop keeper shows me his dealership certificate from reputed companies such as Finolex, RR Kable, Lavell, etc.

In your case, if the MCB is already in place, I would inspect the brands and capacity of all the parts in the MCB - fuses,, switches, trips, and wiring. If needed, you may have to replace all of them to ensure you have no issues there. I have seen many mains catch fire because of low quality and spurious material. In my own house, after all these precautions, the meter in the mains burnt out one day. I replaced the complete board and all the parts including the switch, fuses, and all the trips. I also replaced the complete wiring. Once a week, I open the doors to my mains, and do a visual check. If I see any change in color of any of the wiring, I immediately get the electrician to replace the wire.

I am just trying to warn you of the worst case scenario. Precaution at this stage will give you years of enjoyment.

Cheers

 

[anm]

thanks. I will take pictures and notes of my setup and share. Will also take an electrician and ask about earthing pit etc done by the builder.
The main meter box is out of the house. Then in a corner of the living room, there is a huge mcb box/ junction that for the ground floor. There is another mcb box/ junction on first floor for first floor connections.

 

[ajay124]

I would like to find out the exact voltage I am getting in my house.And whether it stays constant throughout the day or not.How do I go about measuring it accurately with not more than 1 or 2 % room for error?

 

[borg]

To just measure the voltage you only need a multimeter,inexpensive and can be found at local electronic shop but for continous monitoring you will need a datalogger like this

PWV-001 - ACR PowerWatch Data Logger for Voltage Disturbance and Power Quality

 

[ajay124]

The local 'business partner' of Emerson Liebert was good enough to provide me a 3 kva online UPS for a home audition for the weekend.
DAY ONE
We installed it near the audio rack.The distributor arranged 3 power cables also for connecting the cdp/pre/power directly to the UPS.I was completely satisfied with the looks and performance of the UPS.The LED screen showed that the 'normal' input we were getting was 247V!Confirming that some kind of power conditioning was certainly required.The UPS kept the the output consistently at 229/230V.BUT the cooling fan was extremely noisy and.....The music emanating from the speakers lost all its magic.It sounded dull,heavy,slowed down.When I put my ear close to the drivers there was a lot of 'noise' where earlier there had been none.The liquid seductive sparkle of the mids,the airy highs,the tight focused bass....all gone.The decline in SQ was totally unacceptable.:sad:
DAY TWO
Moved the UPS to a point near the distribution board....mcb~ups~output to
the sockets behind the audio rack.Replaced the power cables provided by the distributor with the original cables.The SQ was similar,better???,maybe,to what I was getting from the direct connection to the wall sockets.NO impact on the dynamics,thankfully!The flop show of day one was probably caused by the power cables being replaced with the cheap quality power cables which come with the UPS in order to enable a direct connection.Also by the noisy cooling fan.Been listening for several hours now.My initial reaction today is of whole hearted approval.Most of all because the distributor has offered me a 3kva unit which outputs 2.4kva,for 27.5K.I am buying the unit and putting to rest all my power conditioning confusions and anxieties.
Model No.GXT MT+
Emerson Liebert
Bought from Sinewave Technologies,Manimajra,Chandigarh.
0172-6546902/9216056908
At the moment I would wholeheartedly recommend for good product,good pricing and accomodating,efficient interaction.

 

[ajay124]

Daytime input voltage at my house 245V-250V
Nighttime input voltage 255-260V
Day 3
The sound quality has become superb!Been listening to various symphonies of Gustav Mahler since 6 in the morning.Mahler is now the only music I play for auditions.A complete 80-90 minute playback of the entire 2nd symphony is all that is required to judge what a particular combination of cdp,amp,speaker is capable of!With the online UPS the dynamics,transparency,detail and sweetness have actually improved.All the tweaks I have undertaken since starting this thread,dedicating a separate phase to audio,direct external 4 mm cable and now the online UPS have yeilded the single biggest transformation of my system.A few months ago I had NO conception of what my system was cabable of.I believe cleaning up the entire chain of the power being supplied to audio/video gear is the FIRST and MOST ESSENTIAL step one should undertake.Many cases of congenital upgradeitis may be cured forever.Buying a UPS requires a bigger outlay but changing the cables or dedicating one phase of a three phase meter is the cheapest way of adding sparkle and fizz to a dull audio/video system.
I would seriously suggest that anybody interested in prolonging the life span of their equipment should check the voltage they are getting at different times of the day.The results in most cases will be shocking!Based on all the inputs I collected from various sources and now actual usage,I believe that an online UPS is a very good option.But one needs to carefully decide the peak output required.Emerson rates are quite reasonable.I was offered the 2kva for 25.5 K and the 3 kva for 27.5 K.Excellent build quality.The best prices I was offered for APC were far too high,30 K for 2kva and 45 K for 3 kva,but maybe I was talking to the wrong people.Finally I believe that Emerson and APC are the brands one should
consider for an online UPS.Other brands may or may not yield the same results and in the long run value for money.

 

[srinisundar]

Good Ajay, you could achieve a very good results in your trial to satisfy your need and of course all can be benefited with this. Please post some photos of day two setup to understand very clearly for a layman to know how the setup was placed.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Daytime input voltage at my house 245V-250V
Nighttime input voltage 255-260V
Day 3
The sound quality has become superb!Been listening to various symphonies of Gustav Mahler since 6 in the morning.Mahler is now the only music I play for auditions.A complete 80-90 minute playback of the entire 2nd symphony is all that is required to judge what a particular combination of cdp,amp,speaker is capable of!

It was an invitation to a speaker audition, a few months back, that caused me to "rediscover" this wonderful piece of music. As an auditioner, it is superb, as every level of dynamic is there; every musical aspect from the finest, most subtle detail to an onslaught of sound of rock-band proportions!

At least your voltage is on the high side: ours probably seldom makes it to 220. We often see the tube lights dimming and the fans running slow.

 

[ajay124]

"At least your voltage is on the high side : ours probably seldom makes it to 220. We often see the tube lights dimming and the fans running slow."

Ideally the voltage should remain in the 230V-235V region.In Indian conditions even a 220-240 band could be called a 'blessing'.
In reality Indian towns and cities during various seasons may be having fluctuations within a wide band stretching from 160-280 or even worse.
I believe fluctuations and the silent damage they are doing would be less noticeable in low powered equipment but would cause greater havoc and anxiety with high powered amps.