Why Avr so bad for music?

[reignofchaos]

There's no point fighting. Just build two setups - one for stereo, one for HT and don't mix n match. It solves both sides of the problem.

Optimize the HT setup purely for HT - i.e. best possible picture quality, best possible dialog clarity and whatever else you may deem fit.

Optimize the stereo setup for purely music listening and nothing else. Keep it as simple and as pure as possible.

Using an AVR for music is like trying to do brain surgery with a machete. It'll work but never as well as what a surgeon's scalpel will.

Conversely trying to get a setup optimized purely for music to watch movies is like taking a knife to a gunfight. You need brute force not finesse for movies.

 

[olly42]

There's no point fighting. Just build two setups - one for stereo, one for HT and don't mix n match. It solves both sides of the problem.

Optimize the HT setup purely for HT - i.e. best possible picture quality, best possible dialog clarity and whatever else you may deem fit.

Optimize the stereo setup for purely music listening and nothing else. Keep it as simple and as pure as possible.

Using an AVR for music is like trying to do brain surgery with a machete. It'll work but never as well as what a surgeon's scalpel will.

Conversely trying to get a setup optimized purely for music to watch movies is like taking a knife to a gunfight. You need brute force not finesse for movies.

+1 to that reignofchaos - This is exactly how I ended up - best of both worlds. So in good time would experiment with different stereo setups like tubes but dont see any reason to upgrade my HT set up in the near future.

 

[jaudere]

And then there are people like me who fully enjoy their movies in stereo mode with 2 channel amplifier. but I have 2 set ups. One stereo set up for music (with stand alone DAC, EQs, good amp and DIY speakers) and one for movies (with basic stereo amp and basic but good quality commercial bookshelf speakers)

 

[corElement]

There's no point fighting. Just build two setups - one for stereo, one for HT and don't mix n match. It solves both sides of the problem.

Optimize the HT setup purely for HT - i.e. best possible picture quality, best possible dialog clarity and whatever else you may deem fit.

Optimize the stereo setup for purely music listening and nothing else. Keep it as simple and as pure as possible.

Using an AVR for music is like trying to do brain surgery with a machete. It'll work but never as well as what a surgeon's scalpel will.

Conversely trying to get a setup optimized purely for music to watch movies is like taking a knife to a gunfight. You need brute force not finesse for movies.

Exactly, this is what needed to be said right from the start. You worded it out perfectly. Especially the knife to a gunfight. I tried explaining this in a more practical tech manner but failed to make people understand that we're talking about two entirely different things.

 

[captrajesh]

there is a third group, ones who are not yet sure of what they want. It will be improper to mislead them that music is as good from multichannels, if not better, than stereo. If all they want is music, they should first listen a high quality stereo setup, and an AVR of the same price.. and compare.

Why am I stressing same price? Because, as I mentioned earlier, everyone has a fixed budget.

If I have 30000 Rs, and prefer two channel to multi channel for audio, I wont go spend 90000 on an AVR to get comparable sound quality to a 30000 stereo amp.

Hope I could make my point.

Yes, you could. A sane post which I hope people from the third group, would by and large be beginners and would have limited budgets and can't afford two setups and unsure of which way to go, read. For a given budget, if music to movie ratio is 60:40, (60 being music) go for a stereo setup, else an AVR.

Using an AVR for music is like trying to do brain surgery with a machete. It'll work but never as well as what a surgeon's scalpel will.

Conversely trying to get a setup optimized purely for music to watch movies is like taking a knife to a gunfight. You need brute force not finesse for movies.

That's a broad generalisation but has relevance if one is trying to compare the two at a given price point.

 

[manoj.p]

I was wondering when you will show up, Captain. Nice seeing you.

 

[manoj.p]

I am surprised you (and others) decided to dignify a post which was a statement of pure irresponsibility. The gentleman wants to make claims but is unwilling to back it up.

Hard to argue with the palm reader types. They seem to have all the answers, yet are unwilling to stand behind what they say.

Well,my opinion is this. We are here to discuss and argue. If someone is making a claim, all we can do is politely ask for more details to support it. If someone does not agree with our views, we move on. After all, we all are here to share our experiences and gain some knowledge. There is no need to be overtly bashing each other.

 

[neutral]

Well,my opinion is this. We are here to discuss and argue. If someone is making a claim, all we can do is politely ask for more details to support it. If someone does not agree with our views, we move on. After all, we all are here to share our experiences and gain some knowledge. There is no need to be overtly bashing each other.

Manoje, if you see the many historical arguments on this forum, you can see that it generally leads nowhere. Even if I start giving you facts as it is applicable to me or two channel purists, you will still find points to argue. We are people who try things out and go with our ears. So a discussion on the lines that you suggest will not get us anywhere. It has never led anywhere in any forum in this whole wide world !

There is a reason why the purist / simplistic approach exist. If it was not, all folks would be running all in one systems by now. It saves money and entertains all the family.

I can suggest one exercise.

There are many people in this forum from various cities who run high end amplifiers. Running custom made or top end speakers from many companies. Perhaps folks who have doubts should get themselves invited to their homes. Go with an AVR and replace the cadence mono blocks or symphonic line or Leben or Ayon amplifier, Lyrita SET or AP or Einstein with the AVR. Listen and see for yourselves.

 

[captrajesh]

Using an AVR for music is like trying to do brain surgery with a machete. It'll work but never as well as what a surgeon's scalpel will.

Surgeon's scalpel is way too specialised, like a SET amp driving high efficiency, high compliance drivers like Altecs and/or compression horns. (Not everyone's cup of tea) Kitchen knife would be a more suitable analogy I guess.

I was wondering when you will show up, Captain. Nice seeing you.

Going by my past experience in participating in such threads, I desisted but Thirthankar's post about the third group stirred me up.

I'm not sure if you have come across a well calibrated set up of a SET amp + high efficiency speakers. I'm sure it will give you a different perspective of sound. My apologies if you already have, no offenses meant.

 

[kaushik]

kaushik how many AVRs have you auditioned before you came to this conclusion and created this thread "Why Avr so bad for music?"

Did you reach to this conclusion after auditioned sub 30K AVRs? Have you ever heard a good AVR that comes in the region of 1 lakh plus with proper speakers setup?

I am not talking about high end AVRs now.

i have tested 3 AVRs in <25K range, two of them i have mentioned.
First i have given all information of my tests.
Thread is a question so all people can contribute , just i suggest pinpoint the combination instead of 'i have seen' type replies .

1lac is pretty good money for most starters ... even me so i clearly told that territory i have not ventured .
if you have done some tests i am sure all will be happy to know .

Very interesting points raised by reignofchaos , captain and others ..

 

[rishiguru]

i have tested 3 AVRs in <25K range, two of them i have mentioned.

Thanks for the information.

Henceforth I request you to kindly think a bit more before posting such threads containing these kinds of thundering titles. This thread title of yours implies all AV amplifiers/ AVRs in general are not good for music thus creating mass confusion.

Personally I do like the SQ of all my AV amplifiers be it in stereo or multi-channel. I admit though all my AV amps are TOTL ones. I also do respect everybody else views and perspectives. So, no offence to anyone.

 

[kaushik]

As the title will not make anyone to change the views so i dont see it is explosive because in the start post i clarified why.

However the pro level people like you may have much better equipment

we are discussing for basic low budget AVRs why the SQ is inferior .
most people have similar observation

 

[SatSon]

Thanks for the information.

Henceforth I request you to kindly think a bit more before posting such threads containing these kinds of thundering titles. This thread title of yours implies all AV amplifiers/ AVRs in general are not good for music thus creating mass confusion.

Personally I do like the SQ of all my AV amplifiers be it in stereo or multi-channel. I admit though all my AV amps are TOTL ones. I also do respect everybody else views and perspectives. So, no offence to anyone.

TOTL means?

 

[Audiodoc]

Top of the Line (TOTL).

The problem is multichannel music is that only a very small segment og music is recorded as multichannel.

Most studious record music as stereo.

If any AVR is converting stereo into 5.1/7.1 channels using digital algorithms within a Digital Signal Processor like Dolby prologic, logic 7, DTS Neo etc you are losing the purity of the signal.

 

[rishiguru]

TOTL means?

Yamaha DSP-Z11/ RX-Z11 [US $5,500]

 

[corElement]

nice tux

 

[haisaikat]

Without participating in the discussion of this thread, I must say that this reminds me of an earlier thread we had regarding "Why amplifier should be neutral..." went on for months with mods requiring to plunge in to delete offensive posts, etc..

 

[SatSon]

Top of the Line (TOTL).

The problem is multichannel music is that only a very small segment og music is recorded as multichannel.

Most studious record music as stereo.

If any AVR is converting stereo into 5.1/7.1 channels using digital algorithms within a Digital Signal Processor like Dolby prologic, logic 7, DTS Neo etc you are losing the purity of the signal.

Thanks Audiohoc

Yamaha DSP-Z11/ RX-Z11 [US $5,500]

So you own this?

 

[rishiguru]

So you own this?

Nope.

I own its predecessor DSP-Z9. During auditioning found it to be sonically superior to DSP-Z11 in terms of power and refinement. Note that DSP-Z11 is HD complaint where as DSP-Z9 is a legacy AV amp.

HDMI doesnt count a lot to me since I am a music buff. I listen to both stereo & multi channel music, so opted for the one having best multi channel amplifier embedded reflecting in better SQ and power.

The problem is with a pricetag of INR 4.75 lakhs (DSP-Z9) very few people have heard them and even fewer owns them, so the rest have little or no idea of their true capability.

Yamaha DSP-Z9

 

[kaushik]

Yamaha DSP-Z11/ RX-Z11 [US $5,500]

That is a real BMW in AVRs