Apple hires music 24/192 to dac / amp

[amitanubha]

Hello everyone

This is my first post so please let me know any rules I might have missed
Few lines about me, I used to be a music lover 10 years back and used focal chorus 726 and Yamaha amp as what best I could afford and was not very happy eventually . My source was CDs
Now since mostly grown up and kids moving out I m trying to build Hifi system and hopefully spend more this time
Coming to current dilemma, I want to know what is best way to stream (airplay wise or usbc output wise) a hi res stream from Apple Music 24/192 max if recorded and input to DAC/ Amp.
Most of integrated or standalone DACs advertise usbb computer port and bit depth support even up to 32/384 but not sure if same port can be used for hires using usbc to usbb/c/a dac ports ?
I don’t find much YouTube videos as well and if someone tested properly using dac display
I m aware of some niche DAP like fiio r7 or eversolo amp a6 which seems to support wirelessly hires and I assume they can output then thru one of digital or analog port to an amp
Please point me to right direction and if any basic dac with usb dac mode will work or not

Regards
Amit

 

[Amarendra]

Hello everyone

This is my first post so please let me know any rules I might have missed
Few lines about me, I used to be a music lover 10 years back and used focal chorus 726 and Yamaha amp as what best I could afford and was not very happy eventually . My source was CDs
Now since mostly grown up and kids moving out I m trying to build Hifi system and hopefully spend more this time
Coming to current dilemma, I want to know what is best way to stream (airplay wise or usbc output wise) a hi res stream from Apple Music 24/192 max if recorded and input to DAC/ Amp.
Most of integrated or standalone DACs advertise usbb computer port and bit depth support even up to 32/384 but not sure if same port can be used for hires using usbc to usbb/c/a dac ports ?
I don’t find much YouTube videos as well and if someone tested properly using dac display
I m aware of some niche DAP like fiio r7 or eversolo amp a6 which seems to support wirelessly hires and I assume they can output then thru one of digital or analog port to an amp
Please point me to right direction and if any basic dac with usb dac mode will work or not

Regards
Amit

Hi Amit,

Airplay does only lossy transmission hence the DAC at the end can do only so much. I faced this issue recently. However if you want the Airplay route then the Wiim Pro or Pro Plus will help. If looking for lossless then you have some options as below:
> physical USB connection from phone to DAC. I use a Fiio k11 R2R DAC and it works with the camera connection kit. This connection also works with Schiit Mod + DAC and the Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 (without camera connection kit)

> Eversolo DMP A6 does apple lossless with in built apple music player- this is what is shared on the forum and I have no personal experience with it.

> Apple Tv- but then you need a HDMI based DAC or AVR but this also apparently caps the resolution to 48 only.

 

[amitanubha]

Thanks for replying, as I have mostly usbc based iPhone or iPad won’t any dac with usbc dac mode in theory work . I see when I connect my headphones from iPhone to my px8 usb dac it does ask should it output to headphones or other device )I m told that is confirmation for a dac)
Though there is no way for me to know whether the it is doing lossless as no display but I m encouraged by this setting and menu in ios. Also when I enable hires lossless in Apple Music these days it give a popup warning say need external dac to support and not just ios app but android app also
Btw I do hear a difference in. Y headphones va Bluetooth as if dynamic range has increased )volume decreases a bit with usbc mode) and I can see stage opening widely . And as far as I know it is not yet 24/192 dac is my headphones
So wondering why not with any amp and dac what is so special going on HW/SW driver wise ?

 

[mbhangui]

If you have a good DAC then you just need to to get a camera kit connector in case you have an IOS device that doesn't have USB-C. If you have an IOS device with usb-c then just a normal usb-c cable to your dac will work. The IOS devices have the best implementation of audio stack as far as Apple music is concerned. All other devices require some workarounds.

If you have a macbook or mac mini, then apart from the usb cable you need to install lossless audio switcher to make the mac switch to the sampling rate of the music being played.

Apple TV can play music only at 48 kHz sampling rate

Android devices from android 24 onwards can play hi-res. So I guess apple music on such a device should be able to play hi-res

 

[amitanubha]

Got it and pretty much all dac would work ?

 

[dashy]

Hi Amit,

Airplay does only lossy transmission hence the DAC at the end can do only so much. I faced this issue recently. However if you want the Airplay route then the Wiim Pro or Pro Plus will help. If looking for lossless then you have some options as below:
> physical USB connection from phone to DAC. I use a Fiio k11 R2R DAC and it works with the camera connection kit. This connection also works with Schiit Mod + DAC and the Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 (without camera connection kit)

> Eversolo DMP A6 does apple lossless with in built apple music player- this is what is shared on the forum and I have no personal experience with it.

> Apple Tv- but then you need a HDMI based DAC or AVR but this also apparently caps the resolution to 48 only.

Apple is never hi-res lossless is what I understand. Airplay is 16/44.1khz (CD quality) while Airplay2 is even worse, as it compresses based on negotiation with the sink and is max 16/44.1khz.

Whether Airplay2 sounds better is something I personally dont know. My Arylic is Airplay and so streams at the max 16/44.1khz which is also what it is capable of maximum.

 

[amitanubha]

Hi all
I started this thread to collect/ clarify my doubts and seems there is consensus on few things
Can we all agree that apple does store files in hi res lossless and only 2 ways are currently to get that data without transcoding

1 Wired route : Any usb dac should be able to work / stream from iPad/iPhone or even android phone to stream hi res lossless thru apple music and it has been tested / proven by display built into dacs. This is same port which lot of amp call usb computer port and typically use usb b port but new ones are also coming with tyep c , as long as we have right data transfer cable to insert on both ends
2 Wireless: except sonos eco system , today no ios streaming solution exists as it is a closed system and apple doesn't provide anyone else to implement directly thru servers
Though on android with apm app and with use of open source android project some companies (chinese) have implemented their sw solutions to resample and bypass android limit of audio sample rate includes audio only devices like fiio r7/r9 or eversolo/ziddo dacs and streamers using custom android os.
Side note: Ziddo also makes media players for byassing multi channel audio codecs limitations like true 5.1/7.2 channels lossless audio

Now with above facts and everyone saying improve from source first so any demo I go they try to play thru tidal then
Why apple music solutions are not popular among audiophile (or more devices at all price points are launched esp wireless ones. I assume somehow demand/market force is not enough to justify but why ?
Lastly folks who have these devices can they pls confirm if they do hear difference in their hifi gear with apple music lossless using wired or wireless solutions. If Tidal hi res makes a difference why not apple music ?

 

[Dhruv.Arora]

My 10 year old Arcam Airdac does Apple Music at 24-96 wirelessly.

 

[mbhangui]

Hi all
I started this thread to collect/ clarify my doubts and seems there is consensus on few things
Can we all agree that apple does store files in hi res lossless and only 2 ways are currently to get that data without transcoding

1 Wired route : Any usb dac should be able to work / stream from iPad/iPhone or even android phone to stream hi res lossless thru apple music and it has been tested / proven by display built into dacs. This is same port which lot of amp call usb computer port and typically use usb b port but new ones are also coming with tyep c , as long as we have right data transfer cable to insert on both ends

There are caveats.

1. Only IOS devices can automatically change the sampling rate. So If you connect a dac going upto 192 kHz using usb to the IOS device, you will get bit-perfect and ability to play hi-res
2. Android has a shitty audio implementation. So there is nothing you can do about it. The OS will resample the audio and you can never get bit-perfect. This has been fixed in Android 14 and above (so i have heard).
3. Macbooks, mac mini play at a fixed sampling rate as set by the Audio Midi app. But with a 3rd party switcher (Vincent's audio switcher, macbooks can do what the IOS devices can do
4. Linux doesn't have apple music. So there is nothing you can do
5. Windows also has apple music app. So theoritically it should be able to do bit-perfect and Hi-Res, but I have limited knowledge about this as I don't use windows.

2 Wireless: except sonos eco system , today no ios streaming solution exists as it is a closed system and apple doesn't provide anyone else to implement directly thru servers
Though on android with apm app and with use of open source android project some companies (chinese) have implemented their sw solutions to resample and bypass android limit of audio sample rate includes audio only devices like fiio r7/r9 or eversolo/ziddo dacs and streamers using custom android os.
Side note: Ziddo also makes media players for byassing multi channel audio codecs limitations like true 5.1/7.2 channels lossless audio

These companies have bypassed the android kernel for the audio or they have had access to android 14 kernel. There is opensource implementation of airplay1 and airplay2 known as shairport-sync. So you can airplay to any linux devices which has shairport-sync installed. But bit perfect is limited to 44.1 kHz. Anything about that, apple will stream the AAC version instead of the ALAC version of the song.

 

[amitanubha]

There are caveats.

1. Only IOS devices can automatically change the sampling rate. So If you connect a dac going upto 192 kHz using usb to the IOS device, you will get bit-perfect and ability to play hi-res

Ok got it makes sense

2. Android has a shitty audio implementation. So there is nothing you can do about it. The OS will resample the audio and you can never get bit-perfect. This has been fixed in Android 14 and above (so i have heard).

Interesting, so even if APM can give out hi res lossless on USB output, Android will mess it up ? so no guarantee's

3. Macbooks, mac mini play at a fixed sampling rate as set by the Audio Midi app. But with a 3rd party switcher (Vincent's audio switcher, macbooks can do what the IOS devices can do
4. Linux doesn't have apple music. So there is nothing you can do
5. Windows also has apple music app. So theoritically it should be able to do bit-perfect and Hi-Res, but I have limited knowledge about this as I don't use windows.

These companies have bypassed the android kernel for the audio or they have had access to android 14 kernel. There is opensource implementation of airplay1 and airplay2 known as shairport-sync. So you can airplay to any linux devices which has shairport-sync installed. But bit perfect is limited to 44.1 kHz. Anything about that, apple will stream the AAC version instead of the ALAC version of the song.