Samsung 2013 Plasma TV's

[vakharia]

I would urge you all to continue discussing Panasonic plasma in a more appropriate thread.

This thread is for the Samsung 2013 plasmas. Please discuss Panasonic customer support in a more appropriate thread.

 

[Dirac]

Yes. I think F8500 is your best bet this year. Regarding judder (which runs a chill down my spine), you can try out some bds with intense motion and see for yourself.
My feeling is that 24p playback may be causing the issue. You can try the 3:2 pulldown and verify.
But if judder is still present in 60hz , you should take it seriously.

 

[sanjay0864]

The stand for the Samsung PS64F8500AR has got to be the worst designed stand in the history of TV. The stand is a perfect example of form over function and also proves that, stupidity truly has no bounds. The stand makes the TV a no option for the majority of people who cannot hang their TVs on the wall.

I don't believe that is true. Somewhere I read a review which said the stand could be removed. It comes detached in the box. If you have verified, then I will go with what you are saying

What is not true? I am sure the stand can be removed. But it still remains a horribly designed stand. One that is very, very impractical.

 

[sanjay0864]

The stand makes the TV a no option for the majority of people who cannot hang their TVs on the wall.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, the F8500 is one of the best best built and beautiful looking tv ever created and it is the best looking design of this year IMO. IF you don't like the stand then remove it and wall mount the television.

I am saying exactly what my post states, i.e. this is a very poorly designed stand and is a perfect example of 'form/style' over 'function/practicality'. Also, it might help, if you actually read the post, before responding to it. I have not questioned the 'looks' of the TV. Rather, I have questioned it's practically, considering the huge amount of space the stand takes up. Thus requiring a huge table to place the TV/stand on.

Of course the stand is removable i mean wouldn't it be too far fetched to think that that stand is non removable? lol that has to be the most funniest assumption ever.

Of course the stand is removable and nobody, at least not I, is stating that it is not.

 

[longshanks]

Only thing which is bothering me about F8500 is judder issues, brightness pops and band issues reported by others in North America. So I'll keep eye on them and will do a lot of testing in showroom before I make a purchase also will be buying Samsung's additional warranty.

Judder should not be an issue if you engage cinema smooth, it will be more of an issue with Panasonic as they don't have any judder correction algorithm but without cinema smooth engaged Samsung might have slightly more judder than Panasonic VT or ZT plasma's.

Brightness pops i am guessing you wont even notice even if it exists, HDTV UK review and another review clearly stated that there is zero brightness pop with this television, but certain users who did not know the difference between this and camera flashes in a hockey game actually claimed they saw brightness pops, specially since this tv is super bright.

Overall from what i read this television will have the best consistent blacks and picture in any kind of lighting with the best viewing angle and the cleanest picture with almost no dithering or banding and the best 3D while VT and ZT might have a marginally better black in dark environments.

0.006 cd/m2 is pretty amazing compared to the 0.003 - 0.002 cd/m2 that VT and ZT will produce considering it produces 197 cd/m2 whites retaining the same blacks while ZT will only produce 30% of this(50-60 cd/m2).

 

[just4kix]

I don't get any judder in my ST50.

 

[Dirac]

For me , the opening scene of chapter 2 of sherlock holmes 2 bd, which has a vertical panning shot of London is the reference. Allmost all tvs including sammy and the hx850 miserably fail here.
St50 was rock solid here. This prompted me to go for it.

 

[longshanks]

I don't get any judder in my ST50.

Which only means you did not notice judder, i have not checked judder in ST50 but i most certainly noticed judder in VT50, none of the plasma's i have seen are judder free unless they introduce a bit of soap opera effect, even kuro as judder but at very minimal level.

But anyways if possible i shall check out the ST50 and give you example of a clip where i notice judder.

Plasma's are so much better than any LCD on the planet but they are not perfect.Not every one notices judder,brightness pops,floating blacks,dithering,dirty screen effect or even color banding for that matter, no television is perfect and they tend to have one or the other issue, but for now here are some user opinions.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397245/o...s-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/1740

Panasonic ST50 owners thread part-2 | AVForums.com - UK Online - Page 6

Official Panasonic ST50 Series Thread

Do I Have to Turn on the Smooth Motion for a Panasonic Plasma? | eHow.com


Refresh rate is selectable in 48Hz or 60Hz, but again this year the ST50 did not perform well at 48Hz as the judder (flickering) was too much to handle so again I suggest using 60Hz for all content.

Read more: First Review: 2012 Panasonic VIERA TC-P50ST50 50-Inch 1080p Full HD 3D Plasma TV - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 

[Dirac]

Btw I have to mention that I always use True Cinema setting on my st50.

 

[Dirac]

Actually judder is inherent to a 24fps bluray transfer. I really dont know the actual meaning of it, whether it is jerky motion or smearing. I could'nt notice both of them on st50.

 

[just4kix]

If I don't notice judder, then I am happy. I wish to live in bliss (ignorance = bliss).

Anyway, I know what real judder is - when there is camera pan the objects are not smooth and there is a lag. This kind of judder is impossible to get rid of. It is fault of camera, film/video, transfer process, persistence of vision, interlacing/deinterlacing (if applicable), and many more. It is observed even in cinema halls.

 

[longshanks]

True, and i actually kind of like that lag because when it is removed with some algorithm the film effect or movie effect disappears which i personally don't like.Also this happens because almost all movies are shot in 24.9 fps,it is a good habit to enjoy things without nit picking on minor issues and it only means you are doing the right thing and does not mean you are ignorant.

 

[emmarbee]

@just4kix - Can you please tell me whether the judder isn't there even while watching the same fast scenes in 3D? Cause I usually notice judder in theaters only in 3D and not in 2D. And hobbit HFR 3D was the only movie in which, I enjoyed complete detailing + no judder

 

[just4kix]

@just4kix - Can you please tell me whether the judder isn't there even while watching the same fast scenes in 3D? Cause I usually notice judder in theaters only in 3D and not in 2D. And hobbit HFR 3D was the only movie in which, I enjoyed complete detailing + no judder

See it is like this ... the movie is shot at 24 fps. Hence if there is a very fast camera pan, the 24 frames are too less to capture all the intermitent frames and the picture will look very fuzzy. If the camera pan is slightly slower then you will find jerky motion and this is the real judder. The only way to shoot fast camera pans is to have very high frame rates and display them at the same frame rate. This is where the 48 fps HFR technique used in The Hobbit helps. So regardless whether it 2d or 3d, you will see judder at 24 fps when looking at medium speed camera pans. In 3D the effect of crosstalk and sync enhances the judder to a greater extent.

In my opinion, as stated before, this kind of judder is impossible to eliminate and must be lived with. It is not the fault of TV and whether plasma or LCD, it should not be discussed as a problem with the display. But TVs have electronics to compensate with motion issues and the electronics predict and create sub-frames to eliminate (or compensate) for the judder. It is then, they end up creating the soap opera effect. Different companies have different names for motion correction/compensation - Sony XR MotionFlow, Samsung Clear Motion Rate, LG Motion Clarity Index or whatever, etc.

 

[shanmune]

See it is like this ... the movie is shot at 24 fps. Hence if there is a very fast camera pan, the 24 frames are too less to capture all the intermitent frames and the picture will look very fuzzy. If the camera pan is slightly slower then you will find jerky motion and this is the real judder. The only way to shoot fast camera pans is to have very high frame rates and display them at the same frame rate. This is where the 48 fps HFR technique used in The Hobbit helps. So regardless whether it 2d or 3d, you will see judder at 24 fps when looking at medium speed camera pans. In 3D the effect of crosstalk and sync enhances the judder to a greater extent.

In my opinion, as stated before, this kind of judder is impossible to eliminate and must be lived with. It is not the fault of TV and whether plasma or LCD, it should not be discussed as a problem with the display. But TVs have electronics to compensate with motion issues and the electronics predict and create sub-frames to eliminate (or compensate) for the judder. It is then, they end up creating the soap opera effect. Different companies have different names for motion correction/compensation - Sony XR MotionFlow, Samsung Clear Motion Rate, LG Motion Clarity Index or whatever, etc.

Good explanation for an amateur like me ...
I remember you experimenting with your own video camera with some panning shots captured and running the video clips on your plasma ... I don't remember what exactly you inference was though ...

 

[Dirac]

Actually when they transfer a movie onto a bluray, I think augment the issue. Wont they?
I have seen in reviews of st50 that motion resolution is 1080. That is, when there is motion , resolution is not lost.

 

[just4kix]

That was to test the banding and dirty screen effect (DSE). Some members' pictures posted here of EA slides showed lot of banding/DSE. Thankfully my TV does not.

There is however one effect I see and this is especially true of crimson red screen with white text. When such text is displayed (typically copyright and other such warnings at the end of the movie), the text shows reddish-black horizontal bands stretching across the screen width. This is only seen with white text on red background not otherwise.

 

[longshanks]

Actually when they transfer a movie onto a bluray, I think augment the issue. Wont they?
I have seen in reviews of st50 that motion resolution is 1080. That is, when there is motion , resolution is not lost.

No matter where they transfer the frame rate remains the same.

Most of the televisions today have 1080 lines of motion after processing but that has nothing to do with judder.

 

[alljunkie]

Today people in USA received FW update to reduce/eliminate the brightness pop issue. Most of people who have tested update confirmed that it did worked in 2D mode and made PQ even better. Though it still exists in 3D mode.. I hope samsung works really hard this year to make their TV better compared to last year..

 

[nm_plasma_fan]

Recieved my 64F8500 two weeks ago. So far so good